BOHICA soloed

[gregkerzhner]

You guys are silly... you keep on throwing the same pointless argument in my face.

Yes, my family would be upset, and yes, yours would be too if you got into any sort of climbing accident, regardless of whether you rope up or not.

No, free soloing will not close down any crag, because the owner understands the inherent dangers of climbing. Despite all these access threats, not one of you has managed to find a place that has been closed down due to free soloing.

Guys… just stop it. This is pointless bickering. How can each one of you dissect my personality and motives so accurately when most of you have not met me. How can you judge my personality and know who I am without knowing how to spell my name??? Judging by this threat, I would not get to know most of you because you are a bunch of drama queens!!!! So how the hell do you "know" me so well?

I have read over 10 pages of this shit, and I have had enough. I have refrained from posting any sort of argument, because it would just fuel the fire. Don’t you have problems in your own lives to attend to? You guys should be ashamed of yourself!

I will not post in this again, so keep on bitching about me. I for one, will move on, and work on becoming a better climber, person, and friend to those around me. I suggest you guys do the same.

[Toy]

I don't know you Greg, and don't presume to, but I will add my two cents.

First, understand that I make these comments because I have been climbing in the Red for most of your living years. I have a vested interest in preserving the right/priveledge to climb in the RRG because I won't that opportunity for myself and my children in the event they choose to take that path. I don't know what your motives for this are, and don't care. They are unimportant to me. It is the nature of your actions that interest me. Regardless of whether or not you want to admit it, this type of act is just the kind of irresponsibility that can endanger the future of climbing access, in particular to privately own areas like the ML. I climbed at the lode in the days of waivers. I can assure you, we are all fortunate that nothing happened during your solo or we would all be without this little slice of heaven for a long time. I suspect your reluctance to admit this indicates you've not been privy to great areas like the Hominy Hole and then had them taken away.

Second, I agree with you that arguments posed based on what your parents might think don't hold much weight (but I can tell based on your response to them that you are most likely not a parent). That is between you and your parents. I do wonder if they know you do this though.

Lastly, I hope that there is a lesson to be learned from this. Regardless of the litany of arguments for or against what you have done, I would hope you now realize that if you don't want attention brought to irresponsibility like this you should choose a private forum. If you don't want your actions srutinized, do them sans audience. Like Hugh said, go to Funkrock or Raven Rock on a weekday if you want to do this. At least that way we will have time to spread beer cans around the top of the cliff and blame your demise on an unfortunate accident involving camping and a full bladder at night

[512OW]

This is good stuff. Dean Potter, Peter Croft, John Bachar and whomever else can solo all day and be heroes because of it, but this kid gets all this bullshit because of it.

Damn, climbers are stupid.

[allah]

I dont respect them and never have.

[Toy]

OW- Not once in my post will you see me glorify your "heroes". C'mon foolio, if you are going to make statements like that, at least try to include some semblance of logic (and not the circular logic which dominates most of the drivel spouted from your keyboard).

[512OW]

OW- Not once in my post will you see me glorify your "heroes". C'mon foolio, if you are going to make statements like that, at least try to include some semblance of logic (and not the circular logic which dominates most of the drivel spouted from your keyboard).

Just so you know, my response was not solely to your post. If it had been, I'd have directed it as such. I made a general statement, and my statement was more than logical, it was truth.

But now that you're calling names and handing out insults, its easy to recognize the insecurity you feel when people disagree with you. Maybe if you were more secure in your argument, you wouldn't have to resort to such tactics.

[Toy]

Go back to your seat OW. I'll tell you when its time to go to lunch.

[512OW]

Go back to your seat OW. I'll tell you when its time to go to lunch.

I figured as much. Predictable.

[young'n climber]

I own the both of you...SIT.

[Paul3eb]

No, free soloing will not close down any crag, because the owner understands the inherent dangers of climbing. Despite all these access threats, not one of you has managed to find a place that has been closed down due to free soloing.

greg, a few things. i'm not going to speak to your personality, skills, or anything personal because, as you said and i'll admit, i don't know you, your reasons, or you intentions.

there are some things that you need to think about, though. free soloing has closed down a crag.. a damn big one: arches national park. read the article excerpt below. while you can still climb there, they've banned new development. and expressly prohibited several other activities..

maybe you'll dismiss that fact as a special case.. and maybe you'd be right. however, if you're right in saying that landowners are aware of the inherent risks of climbing, i'd disagree. they're aware of the inherent risks of sport and trad climbing. that they're aware of soloing and the risks of that is, in my opinion, making a big assumption.. and probably a wrong one.

last thing: maybe the load won't be closed for this. maybe you can even say that you're simply not going to fall (even though you can never be completely certain of that). maybe you can say other things are more dangerous.. but perception is everything. any thinking person can understand the difference between using "safety equipment" and not using it (that's how it's written up in the newspapers). wanton disregard for taking safety precautions is, of course, going to be frowned upon by the general public. and this is where the big problems comes: the general public is providing a pretty damn big portion of our climbing access. what they think, what they see and hear is all that matters and is all that keeps our access.

and read this part carefully: i'm not talking about current access issues. i'm talking about future access. there's a ton of land down there, greg. and there's plenty more cliffline. it's not all open, it's not all public. there are plenty of crags that you've and i have never heard of because they were closed by private landowners. if they know that climbers take risks like these (soloing will always sound more dangerous to joe landowner, believe me), then they're are going to be far more difficult to convince to let us climb there. and let's not even get into access that is/will be owned by companies. do you really think a company would want anything at all to do with publicity like this? hardly, and it's so easy for those to be closed before they're ever opened. and if you think people don't know about what goes on throughout this website, you're wrong: they do their homework.

look, do i think you should be able to do what you want? yes.. but not when it inhibits other people from doing what they want. ask yourself this: do these solos make gaining access any easier? any answer other than "no" is simply an illusion, a fictional justification. and ask yourself this: what if you soloes "jesus wept" or "fifty bucks" in muir? what do you think the weber's reaction would be?

your solos have been done, nothing we can do now can change that. be happy you walked away with your life and that this hasn't caused any apparent access issues in the short-term (we'll see about the long-term). now that you've done your thing, though, i'd hope you wouldn't do it again and i'd hope that you'd discourage other people from trying similar feats. not that my respect of you necessarily means anything to you but, while you're no doubt skilled, understand that true respect is earned from the proper use of skill and not just simple possession of it. not to discredit you but just about anyone can be as skilled as you are given time and training.. not everyone can be intelligent enough to use those wisely.

Meanwhile, Park Service officials swiftly moved to close a loophole that Potter used to justify his climb. The regulations, which had been in effect since 1988, stated that rock-climbing routes "may be closed" on any arch named on detailed topographical maps. Two days after the climb, park officials changed the wording to say that all named arches are closed to climbing year-round.

They also passed two other regulations that officials insist were simply overdue and not a reaction against what Potter did: Henceforth, slacklining (tightrope walking, often on a long piece of webbing) will not be allowed in Arches, and the placement of new fixed anchors on new climbs is also prohibited. Many climbers blame Potter for both changes. Shortly before the Delicate Arch ascent, Potter rigged a slackline between the park's Three Gossips, a series of exposed rock pillars some 200 feet off the ground. And until two days after his climb, climbers could place bolts on new routes with a hand-powered drill.

"The fixed-anchor change means we basically can't do new routes in Arches anymore," says Jimmie Dunn. "There's a lifetime's worth back there."

from http://outside.away.com/outside/feature ... imb-3.html

Lin Yutang:
Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art of leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials.

Norman Cousins:
Wisdom consists of the anticipation of consequences.

/hopefully not a lecture but a discussion