RRC Archives

Meadows and Artsay,
Obviously the perma draws were not removed from the cave because it is okay for 12/13 climbers to hang dog their way up 13's and 14's while it is not okay for 11 climbers to hang dog their way up 12's.

Kipp - I don't think this has anything to do with grade. To me, folks took it upon themselves to represent the unified voice of our community without involving the community.

I don't have a dog in this fight either and honestly have been hiding away from this crap for years. Same ol', same ol' exept the bullies have just changed.

If someone took my draws down I would string 2 pairs of 3 together and use them like nunchucks on the thief. They would be quickdraw-chucks. I would make sure there was a steel biner on each end of the quickdraw-chuck also. What a stupid fucking thing to do. Whoever got their draws stolen should just beat some ass. That's the only way to solve this shit. I love seeing skinny climbers scrap.

Pumpkin wrote:Meadows and Artsay,
Obviously the perma draws were not removed from the cave because it is okay for 12/13 climbers to hang dog their way up 13's and 14's while it is not okay for 11 climbers to hang dog their way up 12's.

Yeah, I want to say that too... but I think steepness dictated their choice. They were brash and impulsive, and gave the wrong reasons for doing it, but some good can come out of this.

climb2core wrote:

Pumpkin wrote:Meadows and Artsay,
Obviously the perma draws were not removed from the cave because it is okay for 12/13 climbers to hang dog their way up 13's and 14's while it is not okay for 11 climbers to hang dog their way up 12's.

Yeah, I want to say that too... but I think steepness dictated their choice. They were brash and impulsive, and gave the wrong reasons for doing it, but some good can come out of this.

Were the draws on Convicted removed? Were those on 40oz left? If so, then this was not about grades or eltism, but steepness.

climb2core wrote:

Pumpkin wrote:Meadows and Artsay,
Obviously the perma draws were not removed from the cave because it is okay for 12/13 climbers to hang dog their way up 13's and 14's while it is not okay for 11 climbers to hang dog their way up 12's.

Yeah, I want to say that too... but I think steepness dictated their choice. They were brash and impulsive, and gave the wrong reasons for doing it, but some good can come out of this.

I kind of dig the brash impulsiveness. It's definitely the opposite of talking things to death. and while it's kind of dick to strip all of the steel hardware that was paid for by community fundraiser...

If they're willing to be the crag police and keep stripping draws, bundling them by route, and leaving them at Miguel's every Monday morning all season.... I think that they will have taken fairly bold action in trying to change the culture of the Red *specifically* towards not being OK to leave draws hanging everywhere (it's not a gym, it's a crag) and *generally* towards a culture of less entitlement, less convenience, less disposability, less ignorance, and more thoughtfulness and respect.

Salutations,

Valid points exist on both sides. I'm interested in hearing them out. Please refrain from ad hominem arguments as they cloud the issues at hand. Likewise, appeals to authority carry no weight unless it is the authority of a property owner.

Zach Romero wrote: I'm saddened by the state of the RED and it's decline in the two years I've been climbing here. In MY opinion the Gorge is at capacity, it can't handle many more climbers

So, things started getting lousy once you arrived? Sounds like the solution is for you to leave.

aburgoon wrote:Valid points exist on both sides. I'm interested in hearing them out. Please refrain from ad hominem arguments as they cloud the issues at hand. Likewise, appeals to authority carry no weight unless it is the authority of a property owner.

and people say a minor in philosophy is a waste of time. harumph.

me either michelle....I always drive as fast as I can when i get to the Lode parking lot...

and ray dawg...there will be no one step forward to claim draws lost, because no one even knows whose draws were up there. of course I am talking out my ass since I don't go up there anyway...

but again,, those in favor of Pd's on the undertow, do you have a problem with playground and volunteer being fully equipped?