RRC Archives

Clevis Hitch wrote:How about this... Arbitrary decisions(gates) are made in the name of climbers with out any real input from climbers.

This line of reasoning has been explored, and by all counts it would appear that the CC made the right decision as evidenced by the results of the polls and the conversation in this thread. In this case representative democracy and the resulting expedience in executive mandate was well received. In other words and in general, if all decisions need to be voted on in town hall fashion, nothing would get done.

Clevis Hitch wrote: climbers, are supposed to be about opening access, not shutting it up behind gates.

This reasoning was also explored. The gate does not limit or even impede access.

• Is this conversation (and others like it in the future) promoting solidarity in the climbing community?
•• If not, what is this line of argumentation accomplishing at the expense of solidarity, and is it worth it?

Clevis Hitch wrote: Right now, the CC is run like a non-profit charity(which its not, although charity is one facet of it) The CC is supposed to represent climbers and it does represent some climbers.

Correction, we are 501C3. Officially, we are a non-profit.

This is our mission statement:

RRGCC Mission

Our mission is to ensure open, public access to ample, quality outdoor rock climbing opportunities to meet the needs of current and future climbers and to encourage the conservation of the natural environment, on publicly managed and privately owned land by protecting, promoting, and ensuring responsible climbing.

Let me get this right...

This gate idea was decided in a super double secret meeting - possibly one with Geronimo's skull present - where no outside climber's were welcome to attended - especially climbers with differing opinions than that of those snakes that put themselves into power controlling the coalition?

Clearly - from what has been said about this gate being menacing and playing upon the deepest of human fears - it is not the Arch de Triumph- but rather a cold steel, barbed and razor wire draped, baby skull decorated affront to all that is good in the world.

By all that is Holy, how could this have happened without consulting ever climber that ever has or ever will travel this path up to Solar Collector? Think of the children!!

caribe wrote:This line of reasoning has been explored, and by all counts it would appear that the CC made the right decision as evidenced by the results of the polls and the conversation in this thread.

I'm not sure I agree with this. I think there are people who actually agree with Clevis on some points and are not expressing those feelings here in an effort to not fan flames.

I wouldn't say an effort to not fan flames, I'd say an effort not to suffer a beatdown!

Look at this page we're on. This thread had almost died off. Then BANG! I've got Caribe, Meadows,Pigsteak and OZ piling on.

Caribe wrote In other words and in general, if all decisions need to be voted on in town hall fashion, nothing would get done.

Wow! thats a big statement. I read that as If everyone had a vote nothing would ever get done. I mean in these meetings you guys do utilize Roberts Rules of Order, right? Or is it just some sort of shout down? No wait I think that when the meeting is public there are no actual decisions made, nothing is voted on. Especially by the constituancy. You just have a couple of board members standing in front of the crowd telling them what they're gonna do. There is no voting in public. There is no true discourse, basically just an anouncement. The last meeting I attended, I had a few questions and was shouted down by one individual.


Hey I have an idea! How about we have the meetings online?

https://www1.gotomeeting.com/t/over/RAI ... msem3.tmpl

Thats an amazing idea! Or how about a www.youtube.com channel. At least if we published the meetings in this fashion then people would at least have the chance to be more engaged.
Wait! I got it! I'll do it!! I mean I can publish it to you tube. I can sign up for www.gotomeeting.com I can use my camera and computer to make it happen. So if there are no objections I'd like to make this happen for the next meeting.Anyone object?

Get a life.

Sounds great to me. But, it may prove a bit frustrating when people try to speak over the internet at the same time.

My goal was deescalating this circus. Since I am not accomplishing that, I doubt I will post again.