RRC Archives

Toy wrote:

Basically, tip toe in there, be quiet while you're climbing (as if you're in someone's backyard using something you don't want them to notice), and leave no trace you were there (and follow all their other rules). And if you enjoy climbing there (which you do if you're going there in the first place), then help the Meyers out and throw some bucks into the donation bucket.

And if you see someone not following through, LET THEM KNOW ABOUT IT! It's ludicrous to believe this bbs will reach everyone that climbs at Torrent. We need to police ourselves folks. Posting signs can help, but won't be nearly as effective as face-to-face dialogue.

Having said that, self-policing, while sometimes uncomfortable and unpleasant, requires us to actually grab sack and verbalize our displeasure with the misbehavior of others. Not everyone will want to follow the rules or follow the positive example of others. If you see an "evil-doer", tell 'em to get their act together. Stern looks and the waggle of the finger ain't gonna cut it. Speak up. It's OUR responsiblity to make sure it happens if we want this cliff to stay open.

Exactly.

Spragwa wrote:

Toy wrote:

Basically, tip toe in there, be quiet while you're climbing (as if you're in someone's backyard using something you don't want them to notice), and leave no trace you were there (and follow all their other rules). And if you enjoy climbing there (which you do if you're going there in the first place), then help the Meyers out and throw some bucks into the donation bucket.

And if you see someone not following through, LET THEM KNOW ABOUT IT! It's ludicrous to believe this bbs will reach everyone that climbs at Torrent. We need to police ourselves folks. Posting signs can help, but won't be nearly as effective as face-to-face dialogue.

Having said that, self-policing, while sometimes uncomfortable and unpleasant, requires us to actually grab sack and verbalize our displeasure with the misbehavior of others. Not everyone will want to follow the rules or follow the positive example of others. If you see an "evil-doer", tell 'em to get their act together. Stern looks and the waggle of the finger ain't gonna cut it. Speak up. It's OUR responsiblity to make sure it happens if we want this cliff to stay open.

Exactly.

Yeah. What she said. ... about what he said about what was said before.

I'm hesitant to post on this thread as everyone is mad as hell that Torrent has been threatened by behaviour that we can all agree give climbers a bad reputation. However, as I really Like Torrent and would like to continue climbing there, I would like to put forward my thoughts.

Mark, thank you for being so tolerant and generous. I don't know that I would have been as patient or forgiving. Thank you.

Not a solution, just an idea: There was a post earlier on, probably being facitious, that proposed a turnstyle. While this is unlikely and unsavory, there might be a way to implement some portion of this. While hiking on the AT there are several fence rows that the trail crosses. At these crossings there are V shaped passive turnstyles that often have signage posted on them. As you are forced to slow down and negotiate the turnstyle reading the posting is more likely. The signage on the AT usually is something like "no cars, no bikes, shelter 12 miles", etc.

If Mark were to want something like this, and we put it together it could have a posting board and a donation box. Hard to claim "I didn't see it" if you have to walk through it.

I'm sure it has been beaten to death, but I agree with the above.

Be good, correct the bad.

I think there should be like some black knight posted near a bridge, yea a bridge. He would ask you what your favorite color is and if you give the wrong answer......

How about giving out tickets on recycled biodegradable paper that say something
like"welcome to torrent falls, a privately owned cliff where climbing is permitted by the generosity of the owners, the person that has given you this ticket has observed behavior that may contribute to the closing of the crag to public climbing.
Please adhere to the rules printed on the back of this ticket(or posted at the parking lot...)"
This ticket is redeemable for a free bottle of ale 8 courtesy of (Fill in the blank)
at Mark's BBQ etc."

I would contribute to this program. and if the Meyers would be willing they could collect the tickets and redeem them to RRGCC or other climbers group.

I am just brainstorming but this might defuse a tense situation and minimizelitter.

Christian wrote:How about giving out tickets on recycled biodegradable paper that say something
like"welcome to torrent falls, a privately owned cliff where climbing is permitted by the generosity of the owners, the person that has given you this ticket has observed behavior that may contribute to the closing of the crag to public climbing.
Please adhere to the rules printed on the back of this ticket(or posted at the parking lot...)"
This ticket is redeemable for a free bottle of ale 8 courtesy of (Fill in the blank)
at Mark's BBQ etc."

So you want to reinforce bad behavior with rewards. Doesn't seem like the smartest idea. How about, if someone is doing something wrong, tell them. Whats the worse thats going to happen .... they don't listen.

We may have a different view of this thing but if you come at people in a confrontational way they often feel embarassed, shamed and that often manifests itself in anger, etc. You aren't rewarding the negative condut you are geting the message across, teaching them to be less egocentric, avoiding a confrontation and rewrding them turning in the ticket and not littering.
In my experience people jusst need a nudge to look at things from a different perspective. This helps them grow and helps the Meyers. Of course, this won't work every time but it could lessen the drive by shootings etc.

Some great ideas have been posted. My thoughts are that whatever is done, Mark and Kathy should not feel the need to lift a finger to get it fixed other then approve of our actions. They shouldn't need to do anything so we can enjoy there property for basically free.

IMO Another trail day at Torrent needs to be done. The second weekend of June works for me, we need to get a date set up.

Anybody know how much a porta john cost to rent a month?

Mark has mentioned that the money is not the biggest issue, but IMO the small donation he asks for is more for respect. Besides, its well known he wants to use the donation to give back to the climbers in the form of restrooms. I have approached climbers in the past about not paying there dues, being real nice about it too. Most of the time they have some lame-ass excuse for not paying. i.e. I don't have change, I didn't see the sign (as I watched them walk up the steps), etc. Then I get the "who the f$#k are you look. From now on I'm posting there license plate# on here if I get any BS. I'm certainly not going to get in a shouting match or get physical, just politely ask them to comply with Torrents simple rules, that goes for trash, dogs, etc.

Would this black night say "nih"

I actually was not joking about the turnstyle. I like the idea of the passive one even better. it would be cheaper and easier to implement. It would give the climbers a subconscious impression that they were entering private land. As you said it would force them to slow down, if you put the sign there it will more likely be both read and followed.