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ynp1 wrote:he can do whatever he wants...

it is exactly sentiments like this that jeopardize climbing access.

anyway, who cares in the end who did an FA?
big woop, i say. other than as a personal voyage, no real number of people are going to know or really care about an FAist 100 years from now.

what made them a demi-god?

wanna bet...ever heard of a girl named Lynn Hill and her first free ascent of some small rock in California?

oh, you mean in our little piece of the world? ever heard of David Hume and Thanatopsis?

If you cave into the "who cares" mentality, then equippers might quit spending their hard earned cash and weekends putting up routes for YOU.

to answer Virginia best, I must tell you...
If it is so dangerous, why does the fiddler stay up there?
I'll tell you...becasue the red river gorge is his home.
and how does he keep his balance?
that I can tell you in one word...
TRADITION!
(singing)
Tradition! Tradition!
(now higher)
Tradition! Tradition!

Who must raise the faimily to use proper pro, a safety bolts, and kosher bolts?
The moma! The Moma!

Who must learn, to climb and bolt and clean?
preparing to marry who ever muigel picks?

The daughters! The Daughters!

At three I went to guiding school, at ten I climbed V8
I hear muigel picked a bride for me, I hope, she's a climber.

The So-ons! the sons! the sons!

And Who gets to say if bolts they should be chopped or left alone once in the book?

The FA! the FA!

Tradition!

Wow....Huggy's lost it.

Official.

meetVA wrote:

ynp1 wrote:he can do whatever he wants...

it is exactly sentiments like this that jeopardize climbing access.

anyway, who cares in the end who did an FA?
big woop, i say. other than as a personal voyage, no real number of people are going to know or really care about an FAist 100 years from now.

what made them a demi-god?

Access schmackcess. What jeopardizes access is ridiculous lawmaking.

No "REAL" number of people give a goddamn about rockclimbing at all...but amongst rockclimbers, I betcha a "real" number of them care about the FAist...and will be able to quote it 100 years from now. Just because you don't care about the history...doesn't mean we don't.

I love the history aspect of climbing and any route that I respect, I always look at who got the FA and when they did it. I usually look for other routes in the area that party/person put up as well. And a lot of people do care a great deal about who put up what. Tell me people won't remember Warren Harding for the FA of the Nose or Lynn Hill for the FFA, Hillary for the FA of Everest, etc. etc.

I'd rather know who bolted a route than who FAed the route. I don't think the FA lacks all historical value, however I'm more interested in bolting.

For "great feats" of course you'll remember the FA but for, sorry to say it, just another route in the Red, the FA is a personal journey.

Often, the FA and the bolter/traddie are the same person, but sometimes they are not. I just don't see why some people give FA's get a demi-god role attributed to them, especially on a sport line they did not equip. Or if they had nothing to do with development of access to an area.

That's what I meant to be arguing and I think you probably understood that as well.

I heard that TRADSEEKER already chopped the bolt

For "great feats" of course you'll remember the FA but for, sorry to say it, just another route in the Red, the FA is a personal journey.

I've got to disagree. Example: I think its really cool that John long put up hot september. Is it an 'great feat?' No. But I remember.

Also, most people do not do FA's at all, they are not confident enough to go without beta, and ratings. For that reason, FA's deserve a little respect.
Does it matter how hard the route? A little. If it is really hard, a little more respect is there. If it is really scary, a little more respect is there.

Demi-god is stretching it, really far.
I don't think its a bad thing for people to respect the people that went before them.