RRC Archives

dustonian wrote:

geckodru wrote:I have a lot of experience with the Faders Sum. When Faders was testing the Sum, I was lucky enough to be invited into the preproduction test group.

Since the device is no longer on the market because of safety concerns, I'd say that group failed in their task.

There is a reason the Sum is no longer on the market... as these previous 9 pages have shown, it's a complex design loaded with potential pitfalls. Of course, an outright recall as this sketchball, hypersensitive device truly deserves would be an admission of liability by the manufacturer. Our new friend geckodru has driven this point home with his complex and arcane posts, all of which comfortably miss the point that the SUM is a complex and arcane device to use, dooming it to statistical inferiority on the bell curve of safety. Of course, as always it still takes a sketchy belayer to make decking a reality (all devices and techniques, including the hip belay and Munter hitch, are safe IF used correctly), but it is clear that the many quirks and nuances of the SUM makes that reality all the more likely to occur.

That about SUMs it up.

If I've learned one thing from reading this years my-belay-device-brings-all-the-boys-to-the-yard-and-they're-like-"it's better than yours" thread it's that I really want to buy a 1960 Corvair.

Hmmm...http://www.techrock.es/index.php?mmod=s ... ls&rID=691

ahab wrote:I really want to buy a 1960 Corvair.

LOL, Caleb, don't do it and quit the cancer sticks.

caribe wrote:

Swing axles and no sway bar*, glorious! Actually the later model cars were excellent and and safe for the time but the damage was done, no rear engined American cars will ever happen again.


*(remember to keep the tires at different psi to control the snap oversteer)

Meadows wrote:Many people run their biner through the top and bottom loop where the belay loop attaches or use the belay loop and one of the attaching loops. You cannot do this with the SUM because orientation of the device is essential for it to cam properly.

Along with the simple concept of not letting go of the brake hand. It's also not kosher to triload a biner. Which is something I've seen many climbers do. If you don't know what triloading is. Just stick to using the belay loop. The intended use is in the name, imagine that. I, like many people miss the much less crowded Red River Gorge of 10 plus years ago. I also welcome anybody to enjoy the same sports I do and will adapt to the changing times. Take the time to learn the sport, not just the basics but actually the concepts of how things work and how they are designed. It's actually extremely interesting to look at how equipment has evolved over the years to enable climbers to push harder but remain relativity safe. Gear like the SLCD wasn't even invented till the seventies. As for the fallen climber who I actually know and belayed for his first lead climb. I wish him a fast and speedy recovery. I too am guilty of being careless at times but learned my lesson 40 feet off the ground along time ago when my belayer yelled up. I think the Gri Gri is loaded backwards! That's what I get for assuming the other person knows what they are doing? He too had been climbing for three years or more. So, it's not always about how long you've been doing it, but more about what you know.

Koebs wrote:

Meadows wrote:Many people run their biner through the top and bottom loop where the belay loop attaches or use the belay loop and one of the attaching loops. You cannot do this with the SUM because orientation of the device is essential for it to cam properly.

Along with the simple concept of not letting go of the brake hand. It's also not kosher to triload a biner. Which is something I've seen many climbers do. If you don't know what triloading is. Just stick to using the belay loop.

clif wrote:if there is some casual curve to the allowable pressure which disables the MOST CRITICAL aspect of the device that's seems retarded to me. HANDS OFF the side of the thing and just lock off the rope, end of story. yeah, making sure the 'z' axis rotation is free is really good and important, BUT, one should never get confused about grabbing the device to do so as this proper alignment should be (IF THE LOCKING BINER is the correct size) an automatic reflex of the rope loading.

Thanks for the post which brought a moment of reflection, and a point, which i want to highlight and failed to understand in my earlier post:

if the orientation, not just up and down pivot action but also lateral and oblique rotational aspects effect the operation of the camming device (in addition to the engineered 'squeezing')-
then there is a somewhat 'hidden" potential outcome as the device will not be pulled into the correct operational orientation if the rope loading effect isn't enough to pull the device upward to create the 'backwards N, or Z or QWERty'

This is getting gay...

Please forgive my ignorance on this subject, but I have a very basic question, having retired from climbing before mechanically complex body breaking devices came into fashion. What was wrong with simple belay devices like the ATC and why did people quit using them? Is paying out slack with an ATC such an arduous task that it makes sport climbing all but impossible? Just wondering.

LK Day wrote:Just wondering.

An ATC that autoblocks is the best of both worlds. The autoblock feature interests people in other devices; I don't think there has ever been a problem paying out slack with basket-type devices.