RRC Archives

wow, so they were stolen.

2 years climbing at the red? by your own definition, Zach, you, and everyone like you, are the problem.

toad857 wrote:wow, so they were stolen.

2 years climbing at the red? by your own definition, Zach, you, and everyone like you, are the problem.

Yes, the crew is just as much as part of the problem. I don't believe they have stolen any gear though, removed and left at Miguels is my understanding.

I would hope the crew would also not show up at the meeting... I don't think they did this, so they could go to some circle jerk with a bunch of old crusty climbers.

But I have no dog in this fight... I couldn't care less what happens with the PD thing.

Dustin- I'm at the RED all spring, all summer, all fall and a good part of the winter. Other than some years spent i chattanooga this has been the case for me for quite some time. I'm curious where you came from and how long you've been around if you think that Peter McDermott, Zac Sands, Dave Rowland, Chris Snyder, Dave Scott and myself (all of whom were a part of removing perma-draws from the undertow) are here for the fall only. I would like to thank you for your contributions in rebolting at the lode. You guys have done a great job. I'd also like to thank you and Lena for not making an embarrassing spectacle at the Rocktoberfest (the RRGCC largest fundraiser) this year. The dyno comp, which is free to enter, is an effort to raise funds for the RRG and the Coalition. It is made possible by donated time and energy and Im glad these efforts were respected this time around. As far as contributions are concerned my normal rate for DJ'ing events like Rocktoberfest and the fundraiser at Miguel's for perma-draws is roughly $500 per night. I have made this contribution 5 times in the last 3 years. That's $2,500 worth of time and energy on my part to help raise funds for the RED and the Coalition. If you'd like to coordinate this year's fundraiser at Miguel's I will gladly pass the torch. I also hope you enjoy an undertow free of garbage and human feces. I have personally packed out two bags of human shit from the undertow this fall. This is a form of contribution which happens on a daily basis at crags at the RED. My point: there are contributions being made you might not be aware of. I'd also like to add that everyone involved in removing perma-draws are the same people hiding in the woods providing security to climbers who have parked their cars in the lode parking lot. If you find these services trivial please leave a description of your vehicle and we will be sure not to interfere with someone trying to rip it off. Lastly, and this is for everyone, if you can't hang and clean your own draws or make a reasonable assessment of an appropriate length of time for a set of draws to be up on a route your skill set as a climber is dangerously low. I know for a fact that their are local climbers at the RED who provide lead climbing clinics. They are competent and are offering a great service to the community. If you are not confident in your own skills as a climber you should take advantage of that opportunity.

Michelle- thank you for omitting the fact that I wrote you a formal apology and publicy expressed regret for my posts on facebook.

Stephanie, I did not see where Dario stated what he wanted. All I read is he didnt care one way or the other. please correct me if I am wrong on that point.

Would we be having this discussion if it were all the moderates at Volunteer Wall that were fixed? Or perhaps the Playground? For those who liked undertow fixed, would you have any issue with these moderate walls also being fixed to help with traffic flow?

At issue is this grey area of steepness where some feel cleaning draws is easy, and others who think traffic flow is primary. For those who think all of undertow deserves steel PD's, why is two steel anchors draws and a cleaner mid way not a good solution. Shoot, with that solution, could we not make sure every route at the Lode has a set of steel PD's on the anchors? Those who contributed would still get their warm fuzzy as the draws would stay at the Lode.

If Snyd and Dave Scott helped with the removal of PD's, then the group has a bit of bitterness, old fartness, and decades of climbing wisdom included amongst the novelty of youth. and mr. romero, you can't help your age, but climbing at the Red for a full two seasons makes you nowhere near an expert on trends at the Red. Trust me, I have only been climbing here 17 years, and I still feel like a rookie. That being said, all this passion should be welcomed in the discussion. Let's just make sure to show the climbing community at large we can come to a constructive consensus. Believe it or not, this is a watershed moment and the eyes of many are on us.

let's turn this into a dog thread...

michelle, were your dogs leashed? did they bury their poop with an official RRGCC poop shovel?

Since the draws are still on the cave, I'm just gonna have to bump up my climbing.

cletuswilcox wrote: Lastly, and this is for everyone, if you can't hang and clean your own draws or make a reasonable assessment of an appropriate length of time for a set of draws to be up on a route your skill set as a climber is dangerously low.

I think Cletus is finally owning up to the REAL reason the PDs were removed. I actually agree with the CREW on this. I don't pic my climbs based upon if it has PD's on it, but many do. I personally have never left draws on a route for more than a night because as just a 5.12 climber, I just don't climb anything hard enough that warrants leaving them up.

HOWEVER...

You have to weigh this vs the safety concerns raised by aluminum biners that are chronically left on routes and will go up again. Can you police all the routes at the Lode to know how long they have been there and the condition of them? What happens when you leave?

I would be all for strategically placed cleaning draws on all the routes and a local ethics policy of draws do not stay over night, or they are booty for routes that overhang less than approximately 30 degrees. Measure rise over run and and do the math to make the determination. If the route is over 30 degrees then fully equip the route with steel PD's.

cletuswilcox wrote:Michelle- thank you for omitting the fact that I wrote you a formal apology and publicy expressed regret for my posts on facebook.

John - as I said, "it sounds like you live a life of regret"; and apologies should be an exception, not the norm.