RRC Archives

Meadows wrote:Who will monitor the parking lot? The USFS has paid staff to monitor theirs, but is it worth it to private owners to pay someone to monitor? And can a non-profit make profit on parking?

a lot of non profits have revenue. it just needs to be reinvested, IANAA (I am not an accountant)

What if the parking lot was owned by a separate entity, and wasn't non-profit? The land is free to use - if someone drops you off, or you bike in, you don't pay a dime. Access to the lot costs x per car.

Do log houses float?

Meadows wrote:Who will monitor the parking lot? The USFS has paid staff to monitor theirs, but is it worth it to private owners to pay someone to monitor? And can a non-profit make profit on parking?

You don't have to pay anyone to monitor anything. Have volunteers spot monitor here and there. People are basically honest. 99% of the people will pay. If the 1% that repeatedly try to get off free have to retrieve their auto from a service at $120 ~every other year they will learn to do the math at some point.

Hopefully people understand that the parking ticket is basic, but that they should still donate to the organizations that safeguard climbing.

bcombs wrote:

caribe wrote:

bcombs wrote:We always talk about charging money and then we end up talking about KY use laws.

The USFS charges you to park overnight and that is all. I think a climbing venue could charge you to park at a site. A climbing venue could put up a sign saying something like pay 5$ to park; climbing, hiking and mountain biking or whatever are free of charge and you do these activities at your own risk.

That's what I mean. We are always quick to shoot down money and cite insurance problems and use laws. Let's implement a pay to park strategy for a few key places on the PMRP and see how it goes. The funds are used to maintain the lots, trails and to pay a resource, assigned by the coalition, a wage to monitor and enforce? If someone gets to park without a pass, leave a note and log the license. Three violations and they get towed. Yank a car or three out of the sore heel lot and things will change quickly.

Not sure parking would have the desired effect:

Some work carried out in the United Kingdom suggests that reducing access for climbers may have an impact on
the popularity of sites. Realising that simple entry fees to parks were not a useful barrier, Hanley, Alvarez-Farizo
and Shaw (2002b) tested the implications of introducing car parking fees and measures to increase access time at
three popular sites in Scotland. The study found that ‘a 2h increase in walk-in time in the Cairngorms reduces
predicted visits by 44% … £5/day car-parking fee reduces predicted trips to the Cairngorms by 31%’ Hanley
(2002b:167). However, it was identified that knock-on effects would be felt at other, substitute sites. It is
suggested that such policies may be rather reactive, and in the long run do nothing to combat the problems
resultant from the increasing popularity of rock-based activities.

Paying for parking may deter parking at ONE crag... but if you have to pay to park at all crags then it won't matter. I spend $100 on gas every trip down. What is $10 for parking? What would be more effective is making an extended approach... make the entrance at the far end of the Preserve...

Who or what owns the Roadside parking lot?

caribe wrote:

Meadows wrote:Who will monitor the parking lot? The USFS has paid staff to monitor theirs, but is it worth it to private owners to pay someone to monitor? And can a non-profit make profit on parking?

You don't have to pay anyone to monitor anything. Have volunteers spot monitor here and there. People are basically honest. 99% of the people will pay. If the 1% that repeatedly try to get off free have to retrieve their auto from a service at $120 ~every other year they will learn to do the math at some point.

Hopefully people understand that the parking ticket is basic, but that they should still donate to the organizations that safeguard climbing.

I agree that will work eventually. IMO, there would need to be some enforcement for the first year or two until things are fully implemented and we are fairly sure that the community on a whole is aware and participating.

I know it sucks, rules being enforced on climbers by climbers (and potentially having that negative mindset transferred to the coalition (see the Solar Gate controversy thread)), but the masses aren't giving you the same consideration when they drop in three weekends a year, contribute to the mess, then vanish. They aren't thinking about long term access when they drop the clif bar wrapper or climbing tape on the ground. Someone needs to be thinking of that long term access on their behalf. That planning costs money. Money they will pay for via a parking pass.

$10 a day to park would matter

climb2core wrote:Paying for parking may deter parking at ONE crag... but if you have to pay to park at all crags then it won't matter. I spend $100 on gas every trip down. What is $10 for parking? What would be more effective is making an extended approach... make the entrance at the far end of the Preserve...

You are missing the point. The parking fee, whatever it is, will help pay the rent and upkeep. If it cuts down the patronage by 30% that is fine too. In fact every statement you made seems to be in favor of the parking fee even though your overall post was against it.

Toad wrote:Who or what owns the Roadside parking lot?

It is part of the preserve. Look at the boundaries link a few pages back.