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Re: Who does it belong to?

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:25 pm
by climb2core
727foxtree wrote:Okay, I've been reading a lot of these posts and I can't seem to find what exactly has been done that needs policing. I'm asking because I honestly can't seem to find it. Please list them out so we can actually "police" this stuff.

Thanks!
Someone took a dump on his property... and the caretakers dog ate it. Policing is referring to following a few simple rules that Dr. Bob has made in return for the opportunity to climb at Torrent. Thought they were worth posting:

Please do not shortcut or stray from established trails. Many hours of work have gone into creating an environment that will allow the re-growth of the habitat around Kentucky's tallest waterfall. Access to Torrent Falls is limited in order to limit the environmental impact that overuse creates, please respect this request and register through this web site … if no slots are available consider climbing elsewhere.

In order to climb at Torrent Falls, you must follow some simple rules:

* Climbing without being registered is STRICTLY prohibited.
Access to the property is limited to the hours of 8 a.m. until 8 p.m. unless specific permission for an extension has been granted by the owner of the property, Torrent Falls LLC, Robert Matheny, manager.
* On your climbing day, you must register here at TorrentFallsClimbing.com, This will give you an access code for the gate at the front of the property.
* Do not park at the church. They will tow your car. Parking space is limited to 3 vehicles, parking is only allowed in the lower lot by the old wagon … park neatly. Do not block access to any of the cabins. Carpool
* The top section of the registration receipt page MUST be printed off and placed visably on the front dashboard of your vehicle.
* Misuse of receipts, or the registration system, will result in your car being towed and public ridicule heaped upon you.
* Stay on trails and read, and obey, signs regarding limited access to areas.
* Do not stray from established trails. Do not “short cut” through the woods. Do not damage any natural feature or vegetation, respect all barriers and do not cross.
* No Pooping. You MUST use a WAG Bag or equivalent. There are no exceptions. Not even you. Dispose of human waste in accordance with “leave no trace” ethics, e.g. the use of “wag bags” for all fecal material, do not bury or otherwise leave “in situ”, similarly pack out and properly dispose of all litter including (but not limited to) food scraps. Do not urinate inside the drip line of any cliff; likewise do not urinate near or on any trail.
* No Trundling allowed. Don't know what it is? find out and don’t do it.
* No Fires. Even though you may see the fire-pit, YOU are NOT to build a fire.
* No tent, car, or any other form of camping. Rent a cabin if you want to stay the night.
*
Access to and use of the Torrent Falls property is granted without charge pursuant to KRS 411.190. Those who wish to avail themselves of this opportunity must read and sign a waiver and agree to abide by the rules. Any individual not complying with this requirement will be considered to be trespassing and treated accordingly. All individuals accessing the property are warned that the property is not in any way maintained for access by the general public and that entry is undertaken expressly at the risk of individuals so choosing. Any individual wishing to hike, rock climb or otherwise make use of the property is warned that any of these activities carry with them the risk of serious injury and or death and that the individual so choosing is entirely and solely responsible for assessing the risk of any activity and will accept any and all consequences, good or bad, of such decisions. All artificial installations found on the property have been placed solely for the convenience of the owner of the property; any use of these installations is undertaken solely at the risk and discretion of the individual so choosing to utilize them. Any individual accessing the Torrent Falls property with pets will obtain permission from the manager of Torrent Falls LLC, Robert Matheny, and will assume any and all responsibility for the behavior of their animals as well their waste.
* The gate at the drive is an automatic gate. The timer for gate closure is set for 10 seconds. Please allow for adequate time for each vehicle to exit to avoid damage to the gate or to your vehicle. Please do not give out the access code.
Thank you

Re: Who does it belong to?

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:51 pm
by Clevis Hitch
bob wrote:Again, I think you miss my point. I don’t want a committee, I don’t want a group of stewards, I don’t want to have to build signs, take out ads, etc.; I want simple respect for a group of relatively minimal rules. If each and every case of access requires a committee or a group of stewards do you not think that there will be problems with access overall?

If you don't want a committee to police and deal with the problems and you don't want the facilities to handle the crowds. Then I see that you have no other choice than to close it to climbing for the general public, because given an oportunity, every one of your rules will be broken in a timely manner. Just like they have in the past.

You've done enough bob, You gave them the southern region, let them go shit there. This won't affect your legacy. ten years from now they'll be erecting a bronze statue of you in the southern region. Like Daniel Boone...

Go ahead and close it...

Re: Who does it belong to?

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:01 pm
by bob
Joe, I seem to see that you have already closed it ... not sure what to do there.

Re: Who does it belong to?

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:09 pm
by Clevis Hitch
bob wrote:Joe, I seem to see that you have already closed it ... not sure what to do there.

well bob, just trying to help you out. This whole thing would've never been a problem for me...So I'm assuming that you're going to go my way and close it?

Re: Who does it belong to?

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:18 pm
by toad857
yeah, dude, you're coming in loud and clear. we get it. but you're trying to turn your TWO CENTS into a million god damn dollars. yelling it over and over and over (and starting multiple additional threads to that effect) is only making it more annoying.

If there is an acceptable and reasonable solution out there, you are only getting in the way with this crap. We hear you, man. We hear you.

Re: Who does it belong to?

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:31 pm
by Clevis Hitch
I think bob is beyond solutions. Unlike the webbers, I don't think he's willing to deal with "it" any more.

You see there are two types of people in a negotiation.

Dealers-people who are willing to negotiate.

Then there are the walkers- they're the ones who aren't willing to negotiate and they do what they decided to do before they even got to the negotiating table... they walk away.


I think bob is wanting to walk away.

Re: Who does it belong to?

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:34 pm
by dustonian
No, Bob's just busy with one of those things called a "job." Too bad you're not wanting to walk away, instead of continuing to talk out of your ass and annoying everyone with idiotic comments. A little desperate for attention, huh?

Re: Who does it belong to?

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:10 pm
by Nit
bob wrote:I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. My concern is that, unless individuals police themselves, property owners will need to step in and police for them and this will likely lead to closures.
Bob, I'm sorry for your troubles. The real problem is the mentality of some of the climbers you are dealing with.

I'll share an excerpt from a climbing video script I'm working on. Hopefully it'll get Appalshop support. Tentatively, it's called Kool Klimbers Krush the Krags.

--------------

Biff calls Lance who has access to a private climbing area.

Biff: Dude, can we go to Another Load this weekend?

Lance: That'd be cool.

Biff: Would it be a problem if this dude Erik comes?

Lance: Is he cool?

Biff: Yeah. Dude has the best weed.

Lance: Cool.

Biff: Cool.

--------------

A week later, Erik meets up with Karl and Kandy at the Anybody Can Climb crag. It's crowded. Kandy had hoped to send Kiss My Kitty, a soft 12a. There's a line. Erik used to be friends with benefits with Kandy, but now she's with Karl, and everybody's cool with it...because they're all very cool people.

Karl: It's crowded.

Erik: That's not cool.

Kandy: [Crying] I wanted to send Kiss My Kitty!

Erik: I know a cool, private crag.

Karl: Cool.

Kandy: Cool.

Erik: Cool.

---------------

They arrive at the Another Load crag. A couple of cars are already there. On the trail, Kandy realizes she really has to go, and sends the guys ahead a little. She takes a quick look around, and steps two feet off the trail--but only two feet--because she's really, really afraid of snakes. While she's at it, she thinks she should go ahead and change her tampon. She catches up with the guys.

Karl: You cool?

Kandy: I'm cool.

Erik: Cool.

Trevor: [One of the dudes already at the cliff] You know Thorton? [Thorton owns the cliff]

Erik: [Lying] Yeah.

Anonymous Guy: He's cool, dude. He's the dude who brought the weed last week.

Trevor: Cool.

Erik: Cool.

Karl: Cool.

Kandy: Cool.


Kandy sends Kill the Krags, a 12a that everyone but Kandy knows is really 11b. She's happy, which is really something, since she has BPD.

-------------

It's the following weekend. Karl and Kandy decide to bypass the crowds and go straight to Another Load. They've brought Kandy's friend Roxie, and Roxie's six-year-old, Justin. Justin screamed until she let him bring his dog, Barkie. Kandy feels really sorry for Roxie. She's a single parent. Justin has ADHD. Barkie finds Kandy's deposit from last weekend.

------------

This is copyrighted material. If any of you dirtbag climbers decide to steal it, I'll sue you for all the money you make in a summer delivering pizza to the front porch.

Re: Who does it belong to?

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:15 pm
by bcombs
Kiss My Kitty gets a bad rap because of the huge jug rest right before the crux. It's legit 12a.

Kill the Krags is for sure soft. I did it in 2 goes.

Re: Who does it belong to?

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:19 pm
by climb2core
Hey Nit, you need to leave. Clevis already has the annoying guy position all locked up. However, the creeper poster is available, just read the posts and keep your fingers off the keyboard and all will be good.