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I'd have to disagree Shamis..I think what you find that very few people want to be labelled as agnostic/ atheist.....and just as many folks don't want to be labelled as wacko christian...so what you have is this majority of Americans who just want to live their lives, many who go to church but would not want to be corralled as part of the radical right. The last poll I saw said over 70% of Americans "believed in God".....that is a far cry from being agnostic/atheist...of course, believing in God and being a "Christian" are two seperate things I understand.

of course, Shamis, you have missed an important part of religion...giving people hope....whether misplaced or not, faith brings so many good things to people's lives..but when you focus on the negative, you'll find the poop pile. in birth, death, terminal illnesses, struggles, etc...lots of people use faith as a crutch to get thru....I have no problem with that. Others use drugs, friends, cheating on a spouse, suicide, and shrinks to cope....I say, whatever floats your boat...use it.

Ah yeah, the people who believe in a god that isn't a part of any major religion. Kinda like the "god is love" or "god is the wondrous universe" type of people? Calling that a belief in god is a misnomer in my opinion.

Yeah, and I could see how most agnostics wouldn't want to be labeled as such, since its such a meaningless classification. I'm agnostic about the gingerbread man, but I don't believe in god.

The stress of having to constantly re-evaluate your beliefs when most of reality refutes them isn't fun though, especially for intelligent people who refuse to give up on their faith. I'm glad I got out of that game. Now I don't have to worry about god frowning at me every time I jack off...lol

god kills a kitten every time you masturbate, shamis!

shes baaa-aack

minor flaw in your argument..you classifed yourself as an intelligent being that gave up hope...

Shamis wrote:The stress of having to constantly re-evaluate your beliefs when most of reality refutes them isn't fun though, especially for intelligent people who refuse to give up on their faith. I'm glad I got out of that game.

I see your point, but I think that intelligent people should constantly question and re-evaluate their beliefs, every situation should be assesed and incorporated into ones beliefs.

krampus wrote:

Shamis wrote:The stress of having to constantly re-evaluate your beliefs when most of reality refutes them isn't fun though, especially for intelligent people who refuse to give up on their faith. I'm glad I got out of that game.

I see your point, but I think that intelligent people should constantly question and re-evaluate their beliefs, every situation should be assesed and incorporated into ones beliefs.

intelligent people don't have beliefs.

Intelligent people don't believe that intelligent people don't have beliefs.

L Day wrote:Shamis, TradMike - It doesn't look like these guys fit your "root causes" explanation very well at all. They were educated men of privilege from good, often secular families, who had been sold on the idea of a trip to paradise by the extremist religous leaders that they'd come under the influence of.

The overpopulation has caused poverty. Not enough resources and jobs in a desert to support the population. The Quran even plays on this, "And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise." -- Qur'an, 9:29 Jobs, good life, education, fun things to do, etc. breeds peace. The world has become more peaceful since early history. What has changed, life has become easier, and we don't have a reason to fight. Now that the population has exploded and recourses getting tighter we are going back toward fighting again.

Muhammad was greedy, he wanted everyone to conform to his way of thinking and anyone who didn't was an infidel and must die. Muhammad proved this by conquering Mecca and he wanted to conquer the world. He is the one who set the stage for radical Islam. The same radical Islam that these terrorist and insurgents go by today. It has deep roots and the battles have been going on for centuries.

" I count religion but a childish toy and hold there is no sin but ignorance." Billy Shakespeare- " Through God all things are possible." The Bible

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