RRC Archives

Is it possible it's not a tic mark, but just chalky hands?

jrock...it was called to my attention that a ruling was needed. you did fine on your ruling, but I must point out two flaws (so in the future you will make better rulings)

first, don't say "I think"....that gives the impression that your ruling is optional. Just state the fact, such as "The ruling is...."

secondly, I am confused by something you said about tick marks..

Jrock..."I think that if you tick mark a route then you should automatically lower the difficulty by at least one letter grade since finding all of the right holds (on your first attempt) is part of it."

.if someone went up and ticked a route prior to a first go, then it is not an onsight, no matter how sloppy your ethics are. if ticking it lowers the grade, then after your 7th burn without tick marks, the grade also gets lowered...by then, you have it wired, and have accomplished the same thing as ticks...

back to retirement...

(btw, I am moving to Lexington in June, so the red will be my home crag. then people can stop by my house and get rulings on their way out of town Sunday night...no more fretting all week if your ethics are up to snuff.)

I heard that Lexington is getting erased off the face of the world in June.

J-Rock wrote:Well, since Pigsteak is not here, then I will make a new ruling... I think that if you tick mark a route then you should automatically lower the difficulty by at least one letter grade since finding all of the right holds (on your first attempt) is part of it.

So Makin Bacon should now be a 9+.

I don't know. I don't tick mark or work routes... If I don't send something within 3 falls then I come back for it on another day. Routes are definitely more interesting when they are fresh, with friable holds, moss, lichen, and no tick marks...

Obviously if you work a route or climb it repeatedly until the moves feel easier or effortless then it will flow and feel easier for you. Eventually even a solid 12a like "Stay the Hand" will then feel like a 5.9 for you. Of course, everybody has their own strengths and weaknesses. I'm proud that you onsighted "Makin' Bacon". Good job. That doesn't make it a 10a though. You are much better than that!

By the way, the day we put it up it was very hot and humid, the holds were not clean (or even brushed, in fact they were very dirty and covered with so much dirt and lichen that it made the grips feel much less secure) and we weren't even certain which side of the bolts we would climb it on and we tried it a few different ways... and onsighted it... C

Come put up some routes with us and you will see for yourself that it is not always easy to grade everything perfectly on the first attempt. We do our best and we take a consensus grade and we listen to what others have to say. In the case of "Makin' Bacon" we lowered it a letter grade since it became MUCH easier after the holds were cleaned (and the heat and humidity had dropped).

Why can't someone make tan colored chalk so the rock doesn't look so awful?

I always thought a chalk "X" meant that the feature was loose and shouldn't be used as a hold. Are some morons using an "X" to MARK holds? That's just stupid. If sport climbers get used to chalk x-es meaning "grab here" one of them is going to pull down a big chunk of rock on his/herself and/or his/her belayer (how's that for confusing pc writing?).

Actually, I feel that tic marks are BS. You should clean up after yourself and leave as little on the rock as you can.

Piggie, did you pass judgement on whether or not you can claim a true onsight of a route that has been ticmarked all the way up? Seems to me at best it would be an "onsight with massive beta," but really it's just equal to climbing a gymn route on the first go which means that it doesn't count as anything other than a workout. If you need little markers to know what to grab then you probably should stay inside where it's air conditioned and you don't have to hike up to the rock. Or just work out on a nautilus machine and give me all your gear. Think of how much good you would be doing the environment by not driving to the Red! And you'd never have to find your own way up a climb ever again! Let somebody put little pink tags under the holds for you!

Of course if ticmarking routes is acceptable then why not just spray paint arrows on the rock? It's every bit as cheap (I mean ethically cheap) and wouldn't be mistaken for bad grabs by climbers with a half pound of chalk on their hands. Be sure to use flourescent paint so that nonclimbers can enjoy your work at defacing the cliffs. While you're at it, why not spraypaint the name and rating of every route at the bottom? Maybe put big, yellow splotches at every bolt? And be sure to spray paint the trees on the way up to the crag so nobody gets lost! Or better yet, engrave all the beta at eye level! Hell, just start chipping holds in the rock too. Bring some gymn holds and glue them to the rock so you'll be able to see better where to grab. Actually, screw all that. Just carry a ladder up with you so you can get to the anchors that way.

Alan Evil wrote:Why can't someone make tan colored chalk so the rock doesn't look so awful?

already been done...

...some climbers don't even use chalk....

Alan Evil wrote:why not spraypaint the name and rating of every route at the bottom?

Noticed a hammered metal tag with the route # (reference the guidebook for the corresponding name) & the grade on it at The Great Wall.

I LOVE THIS! Love, love, love! I went around looking for others. What a great idea!

You found it digs? I kept looking for it the last time I was there..... Rick was experimenting with that idea of tagging routes.