Hey Fucksticks!

[caribe]

no county where so much power rests in the hands of the people.

You are deranged.

[tbwilsonky]

no county where so much power rests in the hands of the people.

You are deranged.

we will see how much power we have when it comes time for the 2009 war vote. err...

at the very least we can rejoice in the amount of control we exercise over our local governments.

[L K Day]

2) "escaping tyranny": i find it hilarious that people don't trust the vile self-serving ethos of modern government officials, but believe the first set of politicians in this country were altruistic saints. nope.

Brilliant!!! Very good sir!! I have the same point of view when retards blabber on about the founding fathers.

Well, let's start with the Declaration of Independence. Consider this short passage:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

And from Wikipedia : This sentence has been called "one of the best-known sentences in the English language"[2] and "the most potent and consequential words in American history".[3] The passage has often been used to promote the rights of marginalized groups, and came to represent for many people a moral standard for which the United States should strive. This view was greatly influenced by Abraham Lincoln, who considered the Declaration to be the foundation of his political philosophy,[4] and promoted the idea that the Declaration is a statement of principles through which the United States Constitution should be interpreted.

So, I guess Lincoln was just another of the "blabbering retards" of whom you speak. I wonder which of today's politicians has written anything to rival "the most potent and consequential words in American history". Perhaps you can pick something from the writings of Pelosi, or Reid, or maybe some of Al Gore's poetry that matches the monumental power of the above passage.

I'll go out on a limb and state without equivocation that the founding fathers, citizen leaders all - not professional politicians, were moral and intellectual giants compared to today's power-mad, self-serving scoundrels.

[caribe]

Well, let's start with the Declaration of Independence . . <snip> . . I'll go out on a limb and state without equivocation that the founding fathers, citizen leaders all, not professional politicians, were moral and intellectual giants compared to today's power-mad, self-serving scoundrels.

Yes the USA's Declaration of Independence is brilliant; it burrowed the best of 1) The Magna Carta and 2) The charter of the Iroquois Nations. --- I think that some of the founding fathers were power-mad, self-serving scoundrels. Likewise some people in power now are most probably motivated by good intentions.

[tbwilsonky]

Yes the USA's Declaration of Independence is brilliant; it burrowed the best of 1) The Magna Carta and 2) The charter of the Iroquois Nations. .

..and is heavily indebted to a body of political/philosophical writing stretching from Plato to Hobbes.

that said, i think people such as Jefferson (wasn't there for the convention, but his thought was clearly present), Adams, and Paine make most of our "leaders" look like illiterate fools.

of course, most of the people who sing the praises of these philosopher citizen leaders are the very same people who claim modern intellectuals are "out-of-touch"; bringing their so-called history and philosophy to bear on "traditional" american values, and in the process ruining everything this country stands for...

as an aside, let us not forget the citizen leaders who wrote the constitution also signed off on slavery AND allowed for - nay created mandates for - the extermination of the native americans, just as they would later be responsible for the murders of unarmed workers in west virginia and colorado. so before we put on our star-spangled pajamas and start into some manifest destiny circle jerk, we might want to put shit in perspective.

[tbwilsonky]

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Locke. Hobbes. et al.

[michaelarmand]

Some of you seem to despise America.....so why are you here? Thanks to our freedoms, you are free to leave. Please send us a postcard when you find Utopia.

[Andrew]

Since you are complaining about complainers, and the complainers are American, you must hate America. Michael you can also leave since you hate America.

[caribe]

Some of you seem to despise America.....so why are you here? Thanks to our freedoms, you are free to leave. Please send us a postcard when you find Utopia.

Thanks to our freedoms we are also free to stay. I love my country and distrust my government. I love other peoples' countries and distrust other peoples' governments too.

[tbwilsonky]

Some of you seem to despise America.....so why are you here? Thanks to our freedoms, you are free to leave. Please send us a postcard when you find Utopia.

aw snap. malamar just dunked that shit in your stupid faces.

you haters better recognize.

translation: knowing about terrible stuff done under the auspices of "national security" and not being being okay with it is tantamount to treason. true americans love sans context. it's called faith; faith in one-line political mantras despite their incommensurability with history. get with the program losers.