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why don't the restaurants ban smoking, but instead add just a miniscule amount of some kind of element into everyone's food that will slowly cause us all to get horrible diseases that will eventually kill us? hmmm...

also, what is so frickin' hard about stepping outside to get your fix?

don't get me wrong, I used to smoke socially and to keep me awake driving 500 miles back and forth to school, but I also lost my grandfather when I was 8 to emphysema and he was sick MY WHOLE LIFE and then some, sitting in front of the tv with an oxygen tank and my grandma taking care of him. is that worth it? to me, hell no. plus, my man would drop my ass like a ton of bricks

MiaRock wrote: I think it is interesting that you feel compelled to respond to nonsense, if it is nonsense then why do you care that much?

and if you are so right and it is such a pain to respond then why don't you just sit back and quietly enjoy your self righteousness in peace?

you really should consider running for office, you remind me of alot of politicians I know

Because, Mia, not stepping up and defending a position against (and this is a general term here, not directed to any subject in particular) ridiculous or nonsensical positions intent on dictating the freedoms of others (see my post regarding certain states attempting to control what private citizens do in private settings) is how laws get passed that shouldn't be. then, attempting to repeal the law is more difficult than stopping it in the first place.

"It's not my problem and I don't want to lend credence to an irrational arguement by debating it" is equivalent to standing by and watching someone get beaten. Personally, I think any cameraman in a wartime setting who films wounded soldiers, instead of helping them, should be beaten to a similar state of emergency and left to help themselves, too. It's the classic quote about the holocost (I don't remember it verbatim), where a Jew noted people being persecuted, but did and said nothing, because it wasn't his problem...until, suddenly, he was the one being persecuted.

This issue is "bigger" than smoking in public.

please tell me you aren't relating a smoking ban to the holocost...

lexingtonians have known about this ban for a long time, and smokers have had plenty of time to fight for their right.

now how many here actually called their congressman, protested in Frankfort or did something else to try and stop the ban. if you did you have basis for your argument if you didn't it's too late, now you have to work twice as hard to change it...

superjen wrote:why don't the restaurants ban smoking, but instead add just a miniscule amount of some kind of element into everyone's food that will slowly cause us all to get horrible diseases that will eventually kill us? hmmm...

See my above post regarding "unknown and unseen" hazards. If the restaurant advertized the element and people still ate it, well, that's their fault (much like smokers getting ill, when, since I was 9 I've known smoking was harmfull (but, moreso, disgusting, because climbing can be harmfull, too). The issue is that you KNOW there is smoke present, chose to be near it or not.

superjen wrote: also, what is so frickin' hard about stepping outside to get your fix?

Absolutely nothing and many people do it already, out of courtesy. At work, people may not smoke indoors, so they take breaks outside, etc. The smoker is CHOOSING to help keep "common" air clean, by smoking outside a restaurant (if they are sitting in a non-smoking section with friends, lets say) and I applaud that choice. If one wishes an establishment to be smoke free, take issue with the owner, making a point that you will no longer patronize his/her establishment unless air conditions improve. If enough people complain and the owner begins to lose money, he/she will change his/her policy. Bringing "BIG BROTHER" to the fight, when it's non of his damn business is the wrong approach.

As I said before, my mom smokes and, to my knowledge, has for at least 30 years. My dad smokes the "mother of all cigarette", the Camel non-filter (which is about the only cigarette I can respect, because, if you're going to do something, at least do it right, none of this menthol, light or ultra-light b%llsh^t) as well as cigars (Havanas, too). Now, if either of my parents develop cancer from their smoking, I WILL be sad, because I will be losing a parent, but I also understand they are bringing it upon themselves and know the risks (much like my climbing, or motorcycle riding, or sky diving) and choose it anyway.

And please, nobody bring up the "maybe they can't quit, because they're addicted" garbage. A habbit or physical/mental addiction is just that and nothing more. A person either WANTS to do something, or they DON'T. Success in any endeavor is directly linked to how badly the goal is desired...Fat loss, climb rating, habbit breaking, running goal, etc...(there are SOME physical limitations on maximum achievement, but very few people ever actually reach their physical limitation).

MiaRock wrote:please tell me you aren't relating a smoking ban to the holocost...

lexingtonians have known about this ban for a long time, and smokers have had plenty of time to fight for their right.

now how many here actually called their congressman, protested in Frankfort or did something else to try and stop the ban. if you did you have basis for your argument if you didn't it's too late, now you have to work twice as hard to change it...

I do not live in lexington and did not know about the proposed ban, but if I did, I would have voiced disapproval.

Please tell me you didn't just read so little into what I said that you THOUGHT I was equating a ban on smoking to the holocost. The quote, while BASED on the experience of the holocost, is intended to show how lack of action, because "it's not my problem", is not a good enough reason to ignore an injustice (any injustice), because, eventually, if left unchecked, you WILL be the focus of an injustice and who will stand up for you?

the way people are getting so upset about this whole thing, i thought MAYBE you were...as crazy as it sounded to me, but alot of this is sounding crazy to me...

and as you will note in my above post i agree you should act on an injustice and try to change it. and I FEEL that being surrounded by nasty smoke is an injustice.

Unlike others I do NOT see a smoking ban as a sign that we will soon lose ALL our freedoms.

MiaRock wrote: Unlike others I do NOT see a smoking ban as a sign that we will soon lose ALL our freedoms.

Today it's smoking, tomorrow it's nudie bars, next week it's beer on Sunday, then maybe it's gambling, then comes liquor in general......

These are all battles fought around here since I've been voting.

This is the bible belt, if you think you can trust your government you're fooling yourself. It's not a smoking issue. I couldn't care less if people smoked in bars but a slippery slope is a slippery slope.

Anybody around here been sober and pissed on Sunday?

Freedom is rarely lost in one fell swing. There is a great and historical quote, somewhere, but, again, I can't recall it (I am going to start writing these things down). Essentially the quote says losing freedom is a gradual process of not standing up for things, until one day you look around and realize you've lost more than you thought.

The "injuistice" of being around smoke is completely under your control, though, and, you can, as I said, speak with the establishment's owner and petition your case. If enough patrons speak up, the BUSINESS will change its policy (because they have and continue to). People are in business to make money, if they lose money for a specific reason (non-smokers staying away), then they will change to get them back.

I don't make hyperbolic statements or grandiose comparisons, Mia. If I reference something extreme in history, or an event, it is to exemplify the underlying idea, not diminish the event compared to, or give more bearing to the point being argued. I'm an engineer, while I may be passionate about many things, concise arguements and ideas are my "bread and butter". I know we don't know each other very well (only met once or twice), so you have no reason to know this about me.

Man, I have not had a good debate in AGES. I used to LIVE for this sh^t in H.S. and college. 8)

So you were a nerd?