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Definately read V. Vineland is also amazingly good. I also enjoyed Gravity's Rainbow but I've got to admit it's really hard.

Might I suggest some Peter Mattheisen (sp?), especially In Search of the Snow Leapord

On the subject of hard work sucking, I just can't agree with that totally. Some kinds of hard work sucks (like digging holes) but some hard work is wonderful (like building a house for a friend). There are people for whom hard work of any kind is anathema but these people are soft. They may spend time at the gymn or lots of time climbing or biking or hiking or whatever but they are soft because real work will hurt them. People whose only blisters come from leisure activities know nothing about working hard.

I'm not only talking about physical labor here. I've known people that spend their entire day working with computers that bust their asses putting in 16 hour days. These are people that would work hard all day helping build a friend's house even though they're not accustomed to physical labor. They understand the value of working hard and the satisfaction it brings. I can think of a couple that have callusses from operating their mouse.

I've also gotta comment on the invitation to fight from J.H. Dude, I thought you were out of high school. Real adults (y'know, almost all of us) don't settle arguments with their fists. The way you are going someone is going to beat hell out of you on principle. The anonymity of the computer screen can be shattered in a community as small as this that hangs out in a place as small as the Gorge. You really need to quit threatening people.

As with everyone else on this board, I won't reply to any more J.H. crap. I don't have the patience for pubescent boys.

Alan Evil wrote: ...I won't reply to any more J.H. crap. I don't have the patience for pubescent boys.

Stellar idea. We should all try it.

I think alot of us have.

Part of the problem may be that EKU doesn't seem to have anyone to handle anger management. At least I can't find it on the web.

So is there any new news about the Southern Region? If the coalition buys the land will the oil companies take down their gates? Will the coalition also pay to create parking areas so climbers won't block access to the wells?

I'd like to dispute the idea that the oil companies (or any other extraction industires) are good for the economy or the people of the region. Sure, some people will find jobs but mostly a very few people that live elsewhere are raking in the bucks. Extraction industries are never good for the locals in the grand scale of things. Just ask the people who own the properties that have been strip mined. Most of the mineral rights in Appalachia were bought in the late 1800's for next to nothing and all the coal and oil that's been ripped from the land hasn't benefitted the vast majority of people in those regions. It HAS poisoned their land or allowed it to be rendered valueless or both. I guess we should be glad it's not coal that's under those cliffs or they would've shoved them into the valleys by now.

Sorry guys, this thread is old news. if you want to pick a fight you should try a newer thread.

So what I want to know is who tore down the gates?
Charmagne Oil screwed up locking the the Murrays off their own property. I mean that, in itself, is illegal. The Murrays were dealing with the situation on their own and whoever came in and bulldozed the gates down had no right to get involved.

I feel sorry for Shannon because here she came and confided in the climbers, granting us, as a whole, permission to climb on the property. She gave us the knowledge of our rights and told us how to get us out of being unrightfully cited. Whoever did this just made her eat her words (my opinion). If I were her, I'd regret ever sharing the information with the community and wish that I'd just left the signs and gates speak for themselves.

Very true Artsay, well said. It would be avery sad day if it is true that climbers were responsible for the downed fences.

the gates were seriously torn down?? Dammit I am so out of the loop since I got injured... WTF is going on down there?!?

I really can't imagine a climber doing something like this. Is that what people believe?

I can think of one or two people (well, just one) in these forums that would do something that stupid.

Could someone please give some more info about the gates? I'm totally lost.