RRC Archives

caribe wrote:Oh, and by the way, trad is gettin popular again.

yeaaa, that was the original premise wasn't it?

To answer that question, I haven't really seen a return to trad, or a renewed interest in trad in my parts.

Rock climbing in general is more popular, so I guess in terms of numbers alone you could say that more people trad climb than before, but it's just a ratio thing. To consider that trad is turning into a fad, I'd have to see gym rats taking it up instead of bouldering (and that's not happening), or really strong sport climbers and boulderers buying a rack to give a shot at that unrepeated test piece (not happening either).

The only thing that could point to trad climbing becoming trendy is that I know a bunch of old school tradsters who are pissed because their old 5.7 classic routes are being renovated with bolted anchors and bolted rappel stations. They complain of "loss of essence" and "loss of character" when they can clip bolts at an anchor instead of slinging an old dying tree or equalizing half a dozen nuts in loose blocks. Makes me think that trad climbers are essentially against convenience.
Does it mean that more people are getting on these routes? probably. But like I said, there are more people climbing in general, so that's just 'cause and effect' logic.

Wonder1900 wrote: Makes me think that trad climbers are essentially against convenience.

Convenience should be left for McDonalds. Leave no trace takes effort. The wild places should be left wild. A couple bolts on a Red trad climb doesn't irritate me but if they start sprouting up on multi-pitch trad climbs where no bolts exist it would be a shame. The best analogy would be a whore.

I agree a 100%, though I think different people will define what a 'wild place' actually is differently.

I mean, a 3-4 pitch cliff with a 5 minute approach, within 45 minutes of a major metropolitan area, with a mix of trad and sport climbs can hardly be called 'the wild.'
You'd really have to be the annoying kind of purist to complain of bolted belay stations on popular trad classics that see probably two dozen assents per weekend. In that case, being against those belay stations is pretty much being against convenience.

What Doug Robinson called "The Whole Natural Art of Protection" was once a significant part of the climbing game. In many areas it still is. If one aspires to doing the long classic free climbs on many of the world's greatest crags you'd better learn how to place gear and build safe anchors. It's kind of mandatory on many routes. So, not only is the "leave no trace" ethic admirable in it's own right, placing and removing all gear as you go, but it's a great learning experience. One that helps prepare the crag rat for bigger and grander experiences throughout the world. All I'm saying is that there is a cost attached to turning difficult to protect routes into convenient experiences, and that cost is the loss of opportunities for developing advanced protection skills, skills that are important to have as one ranges out beyond his local crag.

TradMike wrote:

Wonder1900 wrote: Makes me think that trad climbers are essentially against convenience.

Convenience should be left for McDonalds. Leave no trace takes effort. The wild places should be left wild. A couple bolts on a Red trad climb doesn't irritate me but if they start sprouting up on multi-pitch trad climbs where no bolts exist it would be a shame. The best analogy would be a whore.

What is more Leave No Trace: a couple new stainless bolts, or a dying tree covered with tat, the ground around it pounded down, and the roots exposed?

camhead wrote:What is more Leave No Trace: a couple new stainless bolts, or a dying tree covered with tat, the ground around it pounded down, and the roots exposed?

depends on how many people know about those bolts...........

When it comes to tat, does it depend on how many people have died?

camhead wrote:What is more Leave No Trace: a couple new stainless bolts, or a dying tree covered with tat, the ground around it pounded down, and the roots exposed?

A drilled hole is permanent damage that will not last but a decade and then another will be needed. If a climb can do without, why in the hell would you want to add one. Convenience is not a good enough reason. Most trad climbs have walk offs and the few that don't have a shared rappel route. A lot of areas don't even have any trees close to the cliff. Pounded down dirt is very similar to an animal trail. As long as all the animals keep to the same trail impact will be minimized. Tat can be picked up and thrown away just like all the cigarette butts, wrappers, tape, cans, bottles, etc.

F***

mostly i'm happy that TradMike is still out there and that there may be a few more like him....

essentially though, is the argument 'convenient' to what?

LK Day wrote:Putting up trad routes is easy, fun and hassle-free. No tedious rap inspections, cleaning, drilling or god-forbid "projecting". Just grab a rope, some slings, a few pieces and go for a hike. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =1&theater If it's not the latest fad, it should be.

U clearly dont climb in the red these days;)