RRC Archives

empirical estimation prophet ?

CLIMBTRAD wrote: How are the laws differant from KY to alabama.. how can HP charge a day use fee..and know one minds paying. they seem like they are doing well and climbers get hurt their all the time..

Oh boy! Recreational use statutes are one of my favorite topics! I started to reply to this, then I realized that I was writing a small treatise, so I put it in its own new thread.

http://www.redriverclimbing.com/viewtop ... 11&t=14659

Enjoy!
Mark

Ok, wanted to put it to you...

What would make YOU want to give money to Muir Valley? In other words, what type of public statement would make you feel like you were absolutely obligated to pull $5 bucks out of your wallet every time you climbed at Muir?

OR

Why would you feel that you don't need to donate?

climb2core wrote:what type of public statement would make you feel like you were absolutely obligated to pull $5 bucks out of your wallet every time you climbed at Muir?

one that said i was absolutely obligated to do so

climb2core wrote: Why would you feel that you don't need to donate?

while i don't feel obligated to donate to muir i feel that if i climb there i should donate.

climb2core wrote:What would make YOU want to give money to Muir Valley? In other words, what type of public statement would make you feel like you were absolutely obligated to pull $5 bucks out of your wallet every time you climbed at Muir?

OK, this is going to sound like I'm being a douche, and I don't mean it that way. This is what I would "like" to see, not what I have to see in order to want to donate. I've given money in the past to FOMV and will again. But, you asked....

1) A public statement that a long term climbing management plan is being put in place with input from the Weber’s, RRGCC and a few primary stakeholders within the community.
2) Some type of motion toward an RRGCC purchase of surface access rights to the valley, forever.

Right now we have the current land owner’s commitment to climbing and access. That is great, but it doesn’t prevent future land owners from changing the position or from the current land owners having a change of heart. It’s hard for me to wrap my brain around the idea that the Weber’s would get to a point where they have had enough and close the valley to climbing. However, I probably would have said the same about Roadside a few years back.

stix wrote:while i don't feel obligated to donate to muir i feel that if i climb there i should donate.

30,000 visits/9 months= 790/visits per week, with most likely more than that happening in spring/fall. So lets say 1000 more visits for spring and fall. And all those visits have to go somewhere. Maybe it is worth a few bucks to keep a few more kids from peeing in your pool? Just food for thought. I do respect that you would donate if you did climb there, which is more than about 90% of the people climbing there can say.

What would make you stop donating? Closure, and then we would all talk about the old days when Muir was open and about some of our favorite routes there just to make the newbies cry.
What keeps me donating year after year? An obvious long-term commitment to a world-class climbing venue and the priceless times I spent climbing in the valley.

climb2core wrote:In other words, what type of public statement would make you feel like you were absolutely obligated to pull $5 bucks out of your wallet every time you climbed at Muir?

Make climbers walk right under it.

Ha ha, I like it! It may be a little too subtle though. I like the bell idea too. Needs to be close to the parking lot, where everyone will see/hear.

Yeah... I think it's about pressuring people. Nobody's exempt. For the same reason, I think floor passes send the wrong message.