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Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 3:43 am
by caribe
Clevis . . . down boy! We have told you not to do that anymore.
What do you plan to gain with your current tack? The issues here are crystal clear and John and Grant are spot on.
Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 3:47 am
by Clevis Hitch
Because of the liability insurance. You know, Thousand (sic) of climbing gyms accross the country make money every day because they allow people to climb in a safe, insured enviroment. and make a profit! You can't be a "true" climber if you make money at it. Thats "selling out". If you build it they will come. They will come and move into your living room and eat your chicken. They will move into your bathroom and shit on your toilet. You will open your sock drawer and next to your "unmentionalbles" will be some climber face saying." I know that the rules are for everybody else but since I spoke to you in the parking lot three years ago and you didn't yell at me because my girlfriend has great tits, you'll let me get away with what no one else would even ask, can I come into your house and shit in your sock drawer."
I love climbing...I fucking hate "climbers".
Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 3:49 am
by Clevis Hitch
caribe wrote:Clevis . . . down boy! We have told you not to do that anymore.
What do you plan to gain with your current tack? The issues here are crystal clear and John and Grant are spot on.
Did I ever tell you how much I appreciate you Art. You are a good guy. Not a great study of the human condition (like I am).
Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:10 am
by Clevis Bitch
Could everyone stop talking about roadside and pay attention to me?
Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:18 am
by JimKuhn
I'm one of the out-of-town crowd that descends on the RRG perhaps twice a year. We just arrived home tonight (a 10 hour drive) after a wonderful 4 days of climbing, with our last day (Monday) being at Roadside. We were surprised and saddened to hear about the closure. We are planning on returning in the fall, and Ro Shampo was one of many beautiful lines at the Red that I've been waiting to attempt. I hope I get that chance.
Unfortunately, we did witness some of the problems being discussed... Some of it should be common sense but, sadly, that doesn't seem to be the case. We wanted to be more vocal, but lacked the confidence to speak out (except on obvious safety concerns). I know we are not in the minority.
I think getting the message up directly at the crags is critical. Signs at the parking lots and/or trailheads would be a great asset. If a set of rules and guidelines is present, we, as climbers, feel more empowered to intervene. It becomes less a matter of opinion and more a matter of education.
I completely agree that there is a problem. I agree with the necessity of action. I truly hope that the community at large (and not just the tireless locals) can help raise the level of awareness and respect for access, which too many now seem to view as a right, and not a privilege.
I've already posted the closure at the local gym Facebook page. I know the message will spread quickly.
Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:24 am
by rohr
Why not charge to climb in the PMRP or muir?
If the landowner charges for access to the land, then the landowner has a legal duty to keep the land safe. If the landowner allows access for recreational purposes without charging a fee, the landowner is protected from legal liability. Kentucky, like a lot of other states, has a recreational use statute providing this legal protection to the landowners. See KRS 411.190. As stated in the statute, its "purpose ... is to encourage owners of land to make land and water areas available to the public for recreational purposes by limiting their liability toward persons entering thereon for such purposes."
So, as soon as a fee is charged, the landowner takes on a huge liability. So the fee would have to be high enough to cover insurance. I have no idea what it would cost to insure a place like Muir or PMRP, but I imagine I know it wouldn't be cheap. (Think of how much it costs to hire a guide--a lot of that goes straight to the insurance company.)
Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:30 am
by Clevis Hitch
Clevis Hitch wrote:Because of the liability insurance. You know, Thousand (sic) of climbing gyms accross the country make money every day because they allow people to climb in a safe, insured enviroment. and make a profit! You can't be a "true" climber if you make money at it. Thats "selling out". If you build it they will come. They will come and move into your living room and eat your chicken. They will move into your bathroom and shit on your toilet. You will open your sock drawer and next to your "unmentionalbles" will be some climber face saying." I know that the rules are for everybody else but since I spoke to you in the parking lot three years ago and you didn't yell at me because my girlfriend has great tits, you'll let me get away with what no one else would even ask, can I come into your house and shit in your sock drawer."
I love climbing...I fucking hate "climbers".
Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:59 am
by ahab
the lurkist wrote:However I think the numbers have swelled because of the amount of developed cliff. I don't think it is any coincidence that MV has seen numbers explode. It above all areas has accommodated the numbers. Climbers are like cockroaches- if you give them food and shelter they will proliferate. If you take away their sustenance their numbers may shrink.
truth, but i'd step one further. & i say this with all the sincerity i can muster: chop the bolts. all of 'em.
"imagine there's no sport climbing,
it's easy if you try"
- john lennon
Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:03 am
by pigsteak
anchors on trad lines too ahab? or just the bolts that are an inconvenience for you?
Re: ACCESS TO ROADSIDE - closed unttil further notice
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:08 pm
by climb2core
Wow Ahab, that is a brilliant solution. How many hours did it take you to come up with that plan?