RRC Archives

Right I get that. But with a clean fall to the ground, how did she get rope burn?

Probably was caught enough to get turned horizontal, but not enough to break the fall...

rhunt wrote:Right I get that. But with a clean fall to the ground, how did she get rope burn?

You can easily get ropeburn close to the ground from the rope section from the belayer to the first bolt. It's usually at an angle and the belayer will be close to you.

You can easily get ropeburn close to the ground from the rope section from the belayer to the first bolt. It's usually at an angle and the belayer will be close to you.

Understand what you are saying, but she landed behind her belayer by too much of a margin. Usually you get belayer to first bolt rope burn when they catch you (before the ground) and you get pulled towards the wall, have tension on the rope, and are between the belayer and the rock.

powen01 wrote: It is a missed opportunity ... to touch these beginners with posters or pamphlets and information as to what to expect when they venture outdoors.

This has already has been done. It is called ClimbSmart that was developed by the Outdoor Industry Association and is supported by the Climbing Wall Association. The ClimbSmart poster is commonly posted in climbing gyms. The four key points of ClimbSmart are: Climbing is Inherently Dangerous; Qualified Instruction Is Required;
Use Equipment in Accordance With the Manufacturer's Instructions; Your Safety is Your Responsibility. ClimbSmart also has this expansion of the first point:

Climbing is Dangerous:
Stack the Odds in Your Favor.

• Check your knots and harness buckle
• Inspect your gear and replace as necessary
• Know your partners and their habits
• Check your belay - are you sure you're on?
• Read all warnings - they can save your life
• Fixed gear is unreliable - back it up when possible
• Keep an eye on the weather
• Rock breaks - check your holds
• Always double check your rappel system
• Remember, safety is your responsibility

So, Rhunt ... what do you propose as the solution if you're blaming gyms? They're not going away anytime soon and I don't see how we can make them legally responsible.

Sometimes the best instruction comes from close calls and minor accidents. My idea, although difficult to bring to fruition, is how I became a more cautious driver: defensive driving (10 over the speed limit all the time ). It was taught on video by a very talented comedian. I remember SO much from that video (and they used clever techniques to make sure we paid attention). This idea would take some money though, and enforcing it might take carrot dangling, but if you remember any of your education, you remember the funny ones and what they said.

captain static wrote:

powen01 wrote: It is a missed opportunity ... to touch these beginners with posters or pamphlets and information as to what to expect when they venture outdoors.

This has already has been done. It is called ClimbSmart that was developed by the Outdoor Industry Association and is supported by the Climbing Wall Association. The ClimbSmart poster is commonly posted in climbing gyms. The four key points of ClimbSmart are: Climbing is Inherently Dangerous; Qualified Instruction Is Required;
Use Equipment in Accordance With the Manufacturer's Instructions; Your Safety is Your Responsibility. ClimbSmart also has this expansion of the first point:

Climbing is Dangerous:
Stack the Odds in Your Favor.

• Check your knots and harness buckle
• Inspect your gear and replace as necessary
• Know your partners and their habits
• Check your belay - are you sure you're on?
• Read all warnings - they can save your life
• Fixed gear is unreliable - back it up when possible
• Keep an eye on the weather
• Rock breaks - check your holds
• Always double check your rappel system
• Remember, safety is your responsibility

I've seen those and heard of the program. I guess these are optional for gym owners? I'll have to check and see if there are any in my local gym (rocksport) when I get in there next.

Blame? When did I stake all the blame in the climbing gyms? Aside the fact that all the "blame" lies with the climber and maybe belayer. We are all responsible for our actions and decisions - what route to climb?, who will belay me?, etc.

Yet I do think climbing gyms share a responsibility and in educating new climbers about outdoor climbing. Whether that be direction with outdoor climbing classes or indirectly with poster and pamphlets. The one little suggestion I made is for climbing gyms consider not using the Yosemite decimal system. One of the reasons VA in Columbus doesn't use the Y-system is because they know that route difficulty their can't compare to climbing on real rock. Some gyms choose to "sandbag" their routes for the same reason, as someone suggested RQ does. The point is to not give new climbers a false sense of ability thus getting over their heads outside. AND I am not even suggesting that is what happened is this case.

I hope your "education" suggestion will help.

i think lena chita makes some points worth noting. some spotty replies are cause for continuing concern for me.

i'd want to check, but the rocks ate the base of BB prolly don't extend out much past six feet, which is where the ground turns mostly smooth and flat.

and i think it's fine to make judgements about accidents and the thinking (or lack of) of the team. were they communicating about ground fall potential?

i'm particularly aggravated by the mention of the irrelevant fact that the climber had been on a harder route that day. so predictably simplistic to equate hard climbing with competence.

'gyms aren't responsible for ....' argument . pretty lame.

gyms are responsible for...just as lame.