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Allow me for a second to represent some of us that do not live in or near Lexington. Those of us from all around the midwest, who actually enjoy the hours of driving, usually overnight, just to reach such a wonderful place for nothing but long weekends of climbing, only to be humbled by that place that we love. Then we crawl back to the gyms, train harder so that next weekend we can have our butts handed to us again at that same place, that we STILL love.

We are the group that will donate our time, but it is our minds and pockets that can help this project out the most.

Of course we can, and hopefully will donate whatever we can to keep the access alive. $75, a reasonable and worthy investment for the land, access, and overall enjoyment. That being said, I hope that we all donate what we can and follow this project through to completion.

However, I am concerned over the methods by which this climbing community is going about raising money. I live in Chicago and we just recently got wind of this issue. While most of us frequent the Red often, it took a type of mass email to go around and spread the word about this need for fund raising. When most of us are not playing outside, we exist in professional business enviornments and we can all agree that mass emails, forums and PayPal is not a realistic way of generating a significant sum of money. I'm not trying to question anyone's methods or take anything away from this movement, in fact I fully support it. I simply want to ask the question; Can we do more to generate this money?

Maybe there are reasons that this "community" approach is the choice for those involved. Maybe there is a reason that the Access Fund is not involved. Maybe Climbing and Rock and Ice Magazines will not donate some advertizing space for one of the largest land purchases for climbing. Maybe "local" events all around the midwest are not realistic or profitable. Maybe there is no way to receive and sell chalk bags, ropes, bumperstickers, and whatever low cost items in silent auctions online. Again, maybe these ideas and the thousand others that we can all think of will not work. Or maybe (and very possibly) I am simply a uninformed member of the climbing community. But I just wanted to voice my thoughts, and the thought of my fellow climbing friends. We are all looking at how we can help.

A big THANK YOU to everyone involved, everyone who donates, and everyone who gives anything to the cause.

From your average midwestern climber.

Lil_Seamus wrote:
However, I am concerned over the methods by which this climbing community is going about raising money. I live in Chicago and we just recently got wind of this issue. While most of us frequent the Red often, it took a type of mass email to go around and spread the word about this need for fund raising. When most of us are not playing outside, we exist in professional business enviornments and we can all agree that mass emails, forums and PayPal is not a realistic way of generating a significant sum of money. I'm not trying to question anyone's methods or take anything away from this movement, in fact I fully support it. I simply want to ask the question; Can we do more to generate this money?

Maybe there are reasons that this "community" approach is the choice for those involved. Maybe there is a reason that the Access Fund is not involved. Maybe Climbing and Rock and Ice Magazines will not donate some advertizing space for one of the largest land purchases for climbing. Maybe "local" events all around the midwest are not realistic or profitable. Maybe there is no way to receive and sell chalk bags, ropes, bumperstickers, and whatever low cost items in silent auctions online. Again, maybe these ideas and the thousand others that we can all think of will not work. Or maybe (and very possibly) I am simply a uninformed member of the climbing community. But I just wanted to voice my thoughts, and the thought of my fellow climbing friends. We are all looking at how we can help.

I agree with you completely. Local climbers (not the RRGCC) who just got wind of the situation three weeks ago have stepped up to tackle these exact fundraising ideas you mentioned. We have a private forum on this site dedicated to discussing fundraiser ideas and have the ball rolling in several directions, the online fundraiser only being the first and most immediate course of action. Another result is the article written by Paul Vidal which just got put on the front page of www.rockclimbing.com the other day. All I can say is...stay tuned.

Thanks for your support!

~Michelle

The Access Fund was involved in the initial down payment for the land and was a supporter of the Johnny and Alex Crag Day last August.

So they have been involved with the PMRP. I hope their support will continue and grow but it takes time and people to foster that relationship. Although not an excuse, the BOD of the RRGCC has in recent history been focused on the legal issues with the oil company. Now that it is clear to the climbing community and the Oil company that as landowners the Oil company can't deny us our access to our land the push for paying has begun.

I'd like to express my thanks and appreciation to those who are working on this situation as well. And like Little_Seamus, I'm happy to give my time and money.

I truly believe that "community" is key to the continued success of the PMRP purchase. It takes "community" to develop and maintain the property. It takes "community" to put together and implement fundraisers.

Local events are good. I have heard several people say that the "Talking Gym Series" done after the initial PMRP purchase was one of the best things the RRGCC has ever done. I am expecting that Wes will be generating a great response from his presentations.

Even before the PMRP purchase, the RRGCC had developed a Local Representative Network to get the word out about access issues. Matt Tackett (RRO on this bbs) has recently replaced Rob Hunter as the director of this network. If you are interested in becoming involved in local events please contact RRO.

this discussion can go in many directions as "fundraising for crags" is a large subject.

yes; i would throw down cash to climb at a crag. we pay $12 to get into a gym and are taxed to go to our national and state parks (and pay entrance fees)... nothing is "really" free. Someone pays the bill.

but not everyone will donate $$. no worries.

those that can will join the fight.

250k is small potatoes for a crag of this quality. do it now.

community is the key; teamwork; and freeeekin' nasty passion.

success breeds success. when you get a little done.... people will come out of the shrubbery and jump on the moving train.

you all have the keys (a kickass crag to save).... now ya just got to turn and open the door (rally the troops alongside your cause).

if you need any help on fundraising.... ideas... creative solutions... you can call me anytime... 678-898-8793 or email: mbmcleod@mindspring.com. I would love to help out in any way to keep climbing alive.

i spent a part of my honeymoon at the Red.... a unique place worth saving.

Thanks Brad, you guys are professionals down there and I know there's a ton of stuff we can learn from you.

Thanks for Jamestown!

and castle rock! and lrc! and.. well.. everything

Interesting that one-third the people responding voted no. I wonder why. What was the price for the land? Was it $250,000? How many acres is that? Did Paul's article mention 80 climbs? Over $3,000 per climb is kinda pricey, I guess. Is it worth it?

ZSpider

it was 700-acres and the article mentioned the pmrp currently has more than 200 lines open but that more than 80 other lines are closed to access (oil, arena, and in-between). see the rrgcc.org forum for a write up on all the exact costs of the land.

Zspider - All of your questions (but one) an be answered by reading this thread and the RRGCC site. Please do a minute's worth of searching before asking questions that attempt to make your side of opposition seem strong.

And to answer your last question...
Yes, it's worth it. Have you ever climbed on the PMRP? The walls are incredible and there are ~300 established routes, not to mention tons of undeveloped walls.

My guess is that the reason why people are voting no is because the RRGCC isn't winning the popularity contest. The Coalition has actually made enemies and lost support over the years. But what everyone needs to realize is that today is a new beginning with new Board Members, new motivation, and new relationships. The RRGCC is "us"...it's you, it's me, and it's all future Red River Gorge climbers.

Or you can sit on a fence and throw rotton tomatoes at our effort. Just be careful because I, for one, will throw them right back at you.