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Russ is a wise man... Kris will climb 5.14 no problem so long as he stays interested in that goal... If in some alternate dimension Kris does not reach that goal my advice to him will be the same I give Lee every time I see him. Come to Hesters! If that failed then I would admit defeat on this point haha.

I know I probably sound a bit of a mad man on here but I think there are two reasons for that. 1. I honestly feel that the biggest limiting factor in my personal climbing was my psyching myself up on grades and limiting myself. 2. I really do think that climbing at Hesters and the crew there is the best thing I, orany of the other guys there, have done for my climbing and I really want to share that with others (I am in no way sponsered, work for, or have ownership from hesters... just another paying customer). Just trying to light a fire under some asses here.

Kipp, if Kris stalls at 13d, he will anaylze the"whys", formulate a plan that targets the exposed weakness, train said weakness away, and then send. Then he will help teach all of us how to do it.

Kyle, consider the fire lit.

Lee, I would say yes. But as other have established, it will take more work for some. Now, the thing is, there are a broad range of reasons why people climb, ranging from the recreational 'set up toprope on 5.8 all day' to free soloing hard multipitch lines. A lot of people don't have it in their heads to want to climb 5.14 because they think it's some unnatainable level. Others are solely focus on the number but will failin the process. And many others scenarios in between. It doesn't mean that it wasn't possible for them. The great thing about climbing is you can enjoy it how you like.

There more factors than physical genetic build. Ability to learn movement and technique, desire and disicpline to train, are as important as anything. There's no doubt that people have natural strengths and weaknesses. I also know that with determination and hard work, limits don't mean much.

I was reading on Moon climbing's site about their hangboard workout. I'm not going to look it up to directly quote but basically there was instruction to the effect of "if you can only hang off the crimps for a secoond or two, fine." because the next workout, you may hang for two or three, and soon you may get up to 9-10. The point is, as others have suggested, is that with the right focus and intensity you can greatly improve your performance.

Trick is, knowing how to get the right partners, training protocols, and facilities.

Wait. So the guy who's training tips you guys keep pushing on this site doesn't climb 5.14? Surely that destroys any argument that normal people can train their way there.

I think kyle has climbed 5.14....kyle? if not, have any of the hester's crew climbed that grade yet? I know they all warmup on 12s and send mid 13s like a switch hitter at a sausage factory.

climb2core wrote:Historical perspective on progression of climbing...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rock_climbing

1952 5.10
1954 5.11
1955 5.12
1977 5.13
1985 5.14
2001 5.15a

Hmm... except there are 5.11s in Saxony that were put up in the 1920s and Alex Huber did 5.15 in the mid-90s.

emilyharrington's blog post talks about how David graham nevers trains, and she is all about training..isn't that proof for differing ability levels, and what it takes to get there?

Who needs to train when you can afford to spend your whole life at the best venues in the world?

Are the 14s in the Red really so good that we should attempt them over and over and over until we succeed? Are they as good as Dracula or Jim's Dihedral? Is clipping the chains equivalent to a heroine dose? If the grade is so achievable then why waste time with it and instead bang out 50 other lines with the power and stamina we trained for? Are 50 crack rocks 10 times better than a single hit of heroine?

I agree.

Truly "climbing" whatever grade means onsighting it... everything else reeks of elderly ball sweat and desperation. And if you must train to excel or give climbing some semblance of meaning, please do so quietly and in private. The rest of us are trying to have fun & you're making us look like a bunch of uptight jock types.