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whatahutch wrote:I would also like to add that the month off is great for the mental aspect of boredom with training (not climbing). I am 95% positive most of us that actually train, hate the process. It gets boring. I don't want to get back on that wall and run through another battery of bouldering problems I have already done once. I don't want to put another 15 minutes on the treadwall. I can't do another set of lock-offs. Weighted pull-ups just suck. Another run and I will puke from lack of interest.

That's funny. Maybe that's why it seems like only 5% of climbers actually sound like they know what they are talking about. 5% is obviously an exaggeration. I personally enjoy training and rewards from it are just a bonus.

I freakin LOVE to train. I love the process of getting stronger. Some of my best memories of the summer were playing Eminem's "Recovery" album over and over while cranking on HIT strips and the Moon fingerboard. I can't wait to start the process over again.

Whatahutch, I'd say that you're mostly spot on... with the exception of enjoying training. I love it. So do so many people I talk to... some maybe too much. These people end up doing endless "training" exercises, and "sport specific" exercises, and spend so much time managing weight and counting calories that they forget to ever get better at technique.

I've seen several people in the last few years whose technique is sub 5.11, yet they're climbing 5.12's. They continue to hammer away at the exercises and chip away at the extra 1.5 lbs. of extra weight, until they hit their own personal wall.... never realizing the gaping holes in their game. Technique that can be learned in low stress situations, even on rest days, gets shelved in favor of another lap on the campus board or treadwall, and inevitably, injury beats them to 5.13.

Whatahutch alluded to it, I'll just say it out loud... some of you need to up your footwork game, your body positioning game, and your efficiency of movement. Ya'll are sloppy. If you feel that little twinge of offense... then I'm talking to you. If not, either good work on your part... or you're delusional as hell.

twinge nothing......I got a full on charlie horse from that.

twan wrote:

whatahutch wrote:I would also like to add that the month off is great for the mental aspect of boredom with training (not climbing). I am 95% positive most of us that actually train, hate the process. It gets boring. I don't want to get back on that wall and run through another battery of bouldering problems I have already done once. I don't want to put another 15 minutes on the treadwall. I can't do another set of lock-offs. Weighted pull-ups just suck. Another run and I will puke from lack of interest.

That's funny. Maybe that's why it seems like only 5% of climbers actually sound like they know what they are talking about. 5% is obviously an exaggeration. I personally enjoy training and rewards from it are just a bonus.

No one that I have ever started a training program with has ever stuck with it for more than two weeks. When I train I train. My training mentality comes from practicing Muay Thai for four years. I trained so hard for that I would puke 2 to 3 times per week during my workouts. During that time I could run a five to six miler with ease. (I would just go on random runs with my wife, who was my gf then). I had an eight pack. I had 7 percent body fat (got a pinch test to prove it) at 147 pounds. (I weighed 142 once before a competition which put me at about 2 to 3 percent body fat).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muay_Thai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPie3e2ic9A (This video shows a small amount, 2 min, of one man training).
Today I climb at 155 (Which is still below 15 percent and not what I prefer). Here was my most recent two month training period workout. I was about two weeks in to the program when I relayed this to some of my climbing partners via facebook. This is all on a 45 degree section of my woody. I never got to doing my two a days due to job and family responsibilities. My future two month plan will incorporate campus boards (which will be my first time using them). After this last time around I took my one-month rest. The plan went as follows, and note that I have family and a job so my training time must be condensed and efficient.

I have been working out four days a week. One of those days is just climbing for redpoints by working on bouldering problems.

However the other days are completely training oriented. All three days of my climbing workout start with 20 minutes of kickboxing on my heavy bag. Then I move into 20 minutes of climbing to warm-up by doing easy problems, and doing either pull-ups (fifty or sixty in 5 or 6 sets of 10), hanging dips on rock rings (50 in the same manner), or bench presses (50 reps at 75 pounds in 5 sets of 10 reps) depending on which night of the week it is. I start these and if I am not done by the time my alarm announces 20 minutes is up I finish it in my next part of my workout. Which is either endurance or anaerobic endurance oriented.

I don't do the pull ups, dips and bench all on the same night. (Who gives a f about an oxford comma, I sing those English dramas too, I do). I actually rotate those by night. The bench and dips for antagonistic muscle workouts and L-sit pull-ups for arms and core workout.
I did bench and endurance tonight.
Weds it will be dips and steep wall lock-offs (anearobic endurance).
Friday it will be Pull-ups and endurance again.
Sunday it will be climbing for redpoint.
Monday starts the repeat.

For the sake of this message I will explain my endurance workout first.

After my bag workout, I switch into 20 minutes of endurance climbing by doing circuits on the wall, making sure I do a pyramid of Handmoves.
I start with by doing 20 hand moves (using 20 holds with my hands), then I rest briefly on the ground.
Then I do 40 hand moves, then I rest briefly again on the ground.
Then I get back on the wall and do 60 hand moves, with a hanging rest at the 40 moves mark and then finishing the next 20.
Then I rest on the ground and do 40, then rest again on the ground, and then 20 and I am done with my work out.

I do that endurance workout twice a week.

Once a week I do anaerobic endurance by doing three sets of 26 steep wall lock offs.
http://www.nicros.com/archive/archive08.cfm
I follow directions completely. I do this workout in between the endurance day workouts. I do my bouldering for redpoint day in between that last endurance day.

In a few weeks I am going to start adding weight to my workouts, by adding a ten pound weight belt, and finally 15 pounds.

Two weeks before I come to the Red I hope to start doing twice a day workouts by doing a workout in the morning and one in the evening. I haven't decided what I will be doing in the morning yet, but I will only do it for a week, then the next week I plan on climbing that Monday or Tuesday night once. Then resting until I make it to the Red that weekend.

512OW wrote:Whatahutch, I'd say that you're mostly spot on... with the exception of enjoying training. I love it. So do so many people I talk to... some maybe too much. These people end up doing endless "training" exercises, and "sport specific" exercises, and spend so much time managing weight and counting calories that they forget to ever get better at technique.

I've seen several people in the last few years whose technique is sub 5.11, yet they're climbing 5.12's. They continue to hammer away at the exercises and chip away at the extra 1.5 lbs. of extra weight, until they hit their own personal wall.... never realizing the gaping holes in their game. Technique that can be learned in low stress situations, even on rest days, gets shelved in favor of another lap on the campus board or treadwall, and inevitably, injury beats them to 5.13.

Whatahutch alluded to it, I'll just say it out loud... some of you need to up your footwork game, your body positioning game, and your efficiency of movement. Ya'll are sloppy. If you feel that little twinge of offense... then I'm talking to you. If not, either good work on your part... or you're delusional as hell.

Agreed, right now my biggest gap is lead head. Second is slab. I have not got to lead a lot this year so my head has gotten soft. I don't have anything to practice slab on.
I used to be bad at resting, and I still am. However, I started training resting on my last cycle too, using the info you posted on your training blog Odub.
I also have consciously trained my footwork for a year and a half now. My backstep is solid.

recovery. i just don't know. i loved climbing from the first day cause it seemed so improbable that what i couldn't do other people were doing, easily. it takes some experience to hit that wall and have the familiarity to recognize a recovery.

i don't know. i'm just suspecting that at some point the intention is not to remember, but to experience something new, again.

i think changing up the workout is key, even long breaks. running too, just because that urge to break new ground is being gratified and keeping me hungry, not because of the aerobic conditioning necessarily.

I have been trying to come up with some sort of climbing/training program that would work for me for a while and I have found that resting and variation are the main things that lead to me making improvements. The different "training" programs I've tried haven't been much help they usually lead me to a quick plateau, i suspect this is because every climber responds differently to training due to genetics (Side note: I am not an authority on genetics, this is just a guess based on articles and books i have read). So strangely for me the more random my training gets, as long as I continue to train hard and take rest, the more I improve and rarely see a plateau. As far as rest goes I don't so much take time off during the weeks I am training and climbing (I am on an average of 5-6 day a week) I more so take a week or more off every couple of months. I do this coupled with easy days separating my hard days and have seen the best results in my overall improvement. This is what works for me and probably not for many other people, again I think genetics plays a big role on what works best for your body. Hope this helps.