yeah, this is exciting stuff.pigsteak wrote:holy shit...a new level of engagement....scin posting on politics.
I'm utterly dumb
One more for the dumper
I think McCain is a stronger candidate than you think SCIN. Yes he is pandering to the conservatives right now, but I think a lot of people see through that.
He pisses off a lot of conservatives, because he doesn't toe the conservative line like the rest of them. Which shows that he actually has some stances of his own. I think most people like that.
And with regards to the war, I don't think many people will vote based on it. Lots of people want the troops home, but even many of them have to acknowledge that we're making some sort of progress. So the question becomes, will we ever be able to get out without leaving the country in chaos? I think many people will say, yes, someday we could possibly leave the country with a relatively stable govt, vs pulling out now and guaranteeing chaos. Because of how much propaganda there is floating around about the war, I think most people are almost indifferent at this point, it might be better to pull out, it might be better to stay...but very few have access to the kind of information required to make an educated decision on the matter.
I think the real deciding factor for the election will be the budget and the economy. Both hillary and obama want a lot of social programs (namely healthcare). National healthcare is great, but only if the country can afford it. Right now the county's debts are spiraling out of control, which is helping to reduce the value of the dollar more and more. Taxing more could help out, but taxing more could also potentially stifle our already fragile economy. I think its also telling that neither hillary nor obama make much mention of social security and medicare. Both of which are set to collapse within the next decade based on a report released this week. If we can't pay for medical care for our retired people, how are we going to pay for everybody else?
I want somebody to figure out a way to balance the budget and take care of existing programs before adding new ones. The value of the dollar depends on it, and if that goes tits up then we're all screwed.
The obvious comeback to all of this is that the war costs more than medical care would...and I honestly do not have access to enough data right now to fairly judge that statement, but I don't think its true. Regardless of the outcome in iraq, we'll be forced to pay a lot of money to support our military, just in case we need them. And I think its pretty safe to say that McCain has an interest in ending the war, but not until some form of stable govt is established, which could probably happen more quickly with competent people guiding the process. The people that bush put into iraq after the invasion have created the situation we face today...I don't think either potential administration will be capable of reproducing those kinds of foreign policy blunders.
He pisses off a lot of conservatives, because he doesn't toe the conservative line like the rest of them. Which shows that he actually has some stances of his own. I think most people like that.
And with regards to the war, I don't think many people will vote based on it. Lots of people want the troops home, but even many of them have to acknowledge that we're making some sort of progress. So the question becomes, will we ever be able to get out without leaving the country in chaos? I think many people will say, yes, someday we could possibly leave the country with a relatively stable govt, vs pulling out now and guaranteeing chaos. Because of how much propaganda there is floating around about the war, I think most people are almost indifferent at this point, it might be better to pull out, it might be better to stay...but very few have access to the kind of information required to make an educated decision on the matter.
I think the real deciding factor for the election will be the budget and the economy. Both hillary and obama want a lot of social programs (namely healthcare). National healthcare is great, but only if the country can afford it. Right now the county's debts are spiraling out of control, which is helping to reduce the value of the dollar more and more. Taxing more could help out, but taxing more could also potentially stifle our already fragile economy. I think its also telling that neither hillary nor obama make much mention of social security and medicare. Both of which are set to collapse within the next decade based on a report released this week. If we can't pay for medical care for our retired people, how are we going to pay for everybody else?
I want somebody to figure out a way to balance the budget and take care of existing programs before adding new ones. The value of the dollar depends on it, and if that goes tits up then we're all screwed.
The obvious comeback to all of this is that the war costs more than medical care would...and I honestly do not have access to enough data right now to fairly judge that statement, but I don't think its true. Regardless of the outcome in iraq, we'll be forced to pay a lot of money to support our military, just in case we need them. And I think its pretty safe to say that McCain has an interest in ending the war, but not until some form of stable govt is established, which could probably happen more quickly with competent people guiding the process. The people that bush put into iraq after the invasion have created the situation we face today...I don't think either potential administration will be capable of reproducing those kinds of foreign policy blunders.
John McCain seems to be having a little resurgence but it is hard to believe that the damn Republicans are so desperate as to support a man who joined with far left Democrat Russ Feingold (ass clown) to restrict free speech in the name of “campaign finance reformâ€
Yo Ray jack dynomite! Listen to my beat box! Bew ch ch pff BEW ch ch pfff! Sweet!
-Horatio
-Horatio
This is the myth that Obama wants us all to believe. In fact he's on the record as having been against the invasion before the war started, then in favor of staying the course once we were in, and now for immediate withdrawl. At some point he'll be bludgeoned unmercifully with his statements in support of the war during the early and middle phases. Wait and see.SCIN wrote:Obama has worked to differentiate himself from Clinton on the war by noting that he opposed it from its inception
Barack Obama opposed the war in Iraq from the beginning. In 2002, as the fucking shit thinking in Washington lined up for war, Obama had the judgment and courage to speak out against the war. He said the war would lead to "an occupation of undetermined length, with undetermined costs and undetermined consequences." In January fucking Obama introduced legislation to responsibly end the shit war in Iraq, with a phased withdrawal of troops engaged in combat operations. It's bullshit.
That's why he's winning, beating the shit out of Hillary and her much-vaunted "machine," and why the Clintonites have half-unveiled their ultimate weapon: the dreaded "super-delegates," primed to snatch the nomination away from Obama and his majority of pledged (i.e. elected) delegates at the last moment. Furthermore, he looks, acts, and sounds like a president, whereas Hillary merely reminds one of a high school class president (and Edwards the prom king).
That's why he's winning, beating the shit out of Hillary and her much-vaunted "machine," and why the Clintonites have half-unveiled their ultimate weapon: the dreaded "super-delegates," primed to snatch the nomination away from Obama and his majority of pledged (i.e. elected) delegates at the last moment. Furthermore, he looks, acts, and sounds like a president, whereas Hillary merely reminds one of a high school class president (and Edwards the prom king).
Yo Ray jack dynomite! Listen to my beat box! Bew ch ch pff BEW ch ch pfff! Sweet!
-Horatio
-Horatio
In fact, I give it until sometime next week, when we'll be hearing that Obama is an anti-Semite – or, at least, that he is close to "known" anti-Semites (specifically, the Nation of Islam and the Rev. Jeremiah Wright); that he's anti-Israel, and that he – Barack Hussein Obama – is an "appeaser" whose foreign policy views are way to the "left" of right-reason. It's bullshit!
Yo Ray jack dynomite! Listen to my beat box! Bew ch ch pff BEW ch ch pfff! Sweet!
-Horatio
-Horatio
Wow, fascinating . . . seeing Ray on the wall is impressive enough . . . but seeing him cleaned up and in parliament; to quote my all time favorite fiscal conservative, "this is a new level of engagement."
Pigsteak: McCain is not a neocon.
Shamis: Many of our financial problems would end if we pulled out of Iraq. You appear to be worried about Iraq in our absence and you realize that our own countries domestic affairs are going down the tube. Where are your priorities??
Pigsteak: McCain is not a neocon.
Shamis: Many of our financial problems would end if we pulled out of Iraq. You appear to be worried about Iraq in our absence and you realize that our own countries domestic affairs are going down the tube. Where are your priorities??
caribe..I am now dismayed. scin's last post did not end with"It's bullshit"..he is slipping into the proverbial black hole..save him from the big whipper if you can.
also, we KNOW McCain is not a neo con...he can barely be called a conservative, and only on certain issues. He opposed Bush tax cuts. duh. But the point is to throw out the "word" neo con to get a visceral response.
scin, you have missed the conservative talk radio circuit. The daggers are already set "alluding" to Obama's friends, and what these affiliations MUST say about him. thinking of it that way, affilaiting with scin, shamis, and caribe is baaaaad for my image, so I may need to seperate myself. I can't wait 20 years when I am running this country.
also, we KNOW McCain is not a neo con...he can barely be called a conservative, and only on certain issues. He opposed Bush tax cuts. duh. But the point is to throw out the "word" neo con to get a visceral response.
scin, you have missed the conservative talk radio circuit. The daggers are already set "alluding" to Obama's friends, and what these affiliations MUST say about him. thinking of it that way, affilaiting with scin, shamis, and caribe is baaaaad for my image, so I may need to seperate myself. I can't wait 20 years when I am running this country.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.