Second Amendment

[tomdarch]

My biggest concern with legal concealed carry on campus would be the over all cost/benefit ratio. That is what if mass murder was virtually eliminated, but there were more armed encounters among the student body as a whole, with the overall murder rate going up, but by ones and twos, not in mass slaughter?

Holy crap! That's totally reasonable! Yes, that's exactly why lots of people running around with lots of guns is such a bad idea!

[tomdarch]

......the current court will not just overturn DCs law, they will create the previously not recognized individual right.

Correct! well, nearly correct. I'd alter what you said slightly to read "the current court will not just overturn DC's law, they will finally recognize the individual right."

Do you have any objections to the basis for the Roe v. Wade decision. That is, the Constitution establishes a "right to privacy", and that right protects individuals from the government banning abortion? Do you object to the 'creation' of that right by the court, or do you think that it existed all along?

If the SCOTUS said that everyone has the individual right to walk around in public with a 6' long, 18th century muzzle loader, I'd be more-or-less OK with it.

So I take it you be more-or-less OK with freedom of speech as well, as long as that speech wasn't spread by any unanticipated technologies like TV, Radio, CDs, or the Internet?

How is it that you want to compare "words and ideas" with "physical weapons that harm and kill people"? I think they're fundamentally different. Why do you think they are equivalent or even comparable?

[L K Day]

tomdarch - On your four questions.
1) I have no problem with Roe v Wade, haven't thought about it much past that.
2) See above
3) My point was about technology, and that it would be no more reasonable to exclude guns that fired metallic cartridges from second amendment coverage ,because the founders didn't anticipate modern guns, than it would be to exclude the internet from first amendment coverage, because the founders didn't anticipate the the word processor.
4) On comparing words and ideas with physical weapons? - Well, I wouldn't be the first. After all "The pen is mightier than the sword."

Still there is the question, "What are reasonable limits on our second amendment rights?"

I think it's fair to argue that the private posession of machine guns would be subject to certain limitations. Indeed, this has long been the case. I'll be surprised if the SCOTUS rules than the posession of a handgun, in the privacy of one's own home, is an acceptable limit on this right in Washington, DC. But, who knows? It's an extremely interesting case, and a question that probably should have been decided long ago.

[L K Day]

Here's video of a bunch of good 'ol boys playing with machine guns and gasoline. Somewhere in Southeast America, I guess. Well, OK, Kentucky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTGg7KH0xRI

And here's a much better one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31vm3-BQRJU&NR=1

[abock33]

I'm putting my $.02 in and that's it. This Is a link to an article on why the 2nd Amendment is important and has some interesting info on gun crime. Check it out.

http://mywebtimes.com/archives/ottawa/d ... ?id=354264

[abock33]

...

After all, any given gun (esp. hand guns) are way, way more likely to be used in a crime, domestic shooting or suicide than it is to be used in some "self defense" scenario. And I'm saying this as someone who lives in a so-so neighborhood in a big city with gang graffiti all around my home and who was burgled a couple of years ago. My experience is that most people are better off without a gun around.

This Study is from 2004. It's the closest I've found to date.

http://rebirthoffreedom.org/freedom/gun ... ime-facts/

to summarize it It stated that Annually there 2.5 million crimes stopped by Self defense Firearm use. There are also 700,000 annual crimes committed. Take
2,500,000
- 700,000
------------ and you get
1,800,000 "Nearly two million crimes are prevented with guns more than are “causedâ€

[abock33]

... So, aside from the question of what the Second Amendment actually, originally meant, there's the question of what limits, if any, are acceptable on who can "keep and bear arms" and what "arms" may be kept and borne. Mentally ill people are part of "the people", as are convicted felons...

Are age limitations on gun ownership allowed under the probable new reading of the Second Amendment? Are "common sense" laws like requirements for trigger locks allowed? What about limitations on "cop killer" equipment?

To answer your question I am quoting directly from KRS 237.110 (that's a Ky Legal Statute source in case you don't know)

The applicant for a carry concealed deadly weapon (CCDW) license must:

* Be a citizen of the United States; and
* Be a resident of Kentucky for at least six months prior to filing the application or a member of the Armed Forces of the United States who is on active duty, who is at the time of application assigned to a military posting in Kentucky, and who has been assigned to a posting in Kentucky for six months or longer immediately preceding the filing of the application; and
* Be twenty-one (21) years of age or older; and
* Not be under indictment for, or have been convicted of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year; and
* Not be a fugitive from justice; and
* Not be an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance; and
* Not have been adjudicated as a mental defective or have committed to a mental institution; and
* Not have been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions; and
* Not be subject to a domestic violence order or emergency protective order; and
* Not have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (see section below for discussion of misdemeanor crimes of domestic violence); and
* Not be prohibited from the purchase, receipt or possession of firearms, ammunition or both pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(g), 18 U.S.C. 922(n), or applicable state law; and
* Not have been committed to a state or federal facility for abuse of a controlled substance or convicted of a misdemeanor relating to a controlled substance within the three-year period immediately preceding the date the application was submitted; and
* Not have two or more convictions for violating KRS 189A.010 (Operating motor vehicle under the influence of alcohol or other substance which impairs driving ability) within the three (3) years immediately preceding the date on which the application is submitted; and
* Not have been committed as an alcoholic pursuant to KRS Chapter 222 or similar laws of another state within the three (3) year period immediately preceding the date on which the application is submitted; and
* Not owe a child support arrearage which equals or exceeds the cumulative amount which would be owed after one (1) year of nonpayment; and
* Have complied with any subpoena or warrant relating to child support or paternity proceedings; and
* Have not been convicted of a violation of KRS 508.030 (Assault in the fourth degree) or 508.080 (Terroristic Threatening in the third degree) within the three years immediately preceding the date on which the application is submitted; and
* Demonstrate competence with a firearm by successful completion of a firearms safety or training course offered or approved by the Department of Criminal Justice Training.

NOTE - ONLY SOME OF THE OFFENSES LISTED ABOVE HAVE A THREE-YEAR LIMITATION. OTHER OFFENSES, SUCH AS FELONIES AND MISDEMEANOR CRIMES OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, DO NOT HAVE A TIME LIMIT. IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF A FELONY OR MISDEMEANOR CRIME OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, YOU ARE INELIGIBLE FOR A CCDW LICENSE AND ARE PROHIBITED FROM POSSESSING A FIREARM UNDER FEDERAL LAW, NO MATTER HOW LONG AGO YOU WERE CONVICTED.

Also... That's right I'm not done. As for the types of weapons allowed This is straight out of the National Firearms act through another source

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardw ... fa_faq.txt

Basically an illegal is any of the following.

NFA weapons are: machine guns, sound suppressors (a.k.a.
silencers), short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles,
destructive devices and "any other weapons". Exactly what these
weapons are is defined in the law, as well as in court cases
interpreting the law. Withut going into to much detail, these are
what the categories encompass:

A machine gun is any gun that can fire more than one shot with
a single pull of the trigger, or a receiver of a machine gun, or a
combination of parts for assembling a machine gun, or a part or set
of parts for converting a gun into a machine gun.

A silencer is any device for muffling the gunshot of a portable
firearm, or any part or parts exclusively designed or intended for
such a device (see discussion below).

A short barreled shotgun is any shotgun (which is defined as a
shoulder fired, smooth bore firearm) with a barrel of less than 18"
or an overall length of less than 26", or any weapon made from a
shotgun falling into the same length parameters.

A short barreled rifle is a rifle (which is defined as a shoulder
fired, rifled bore firearm) with a barrel length of less than 16",
or an overall length of less than 26", or any weapon made from a
rifle falling into the same length parameters (like a pistol made
from a rifle). In measuring barrel length you do it from the
closed breech to the muzzle, see 27 CFR sec. 179.11. To measure
overall length do so along, "the distance between the extreme ends
of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of
the bore." 27 CFR sec. 179.11. On a folding stock weapon you
measure with the stock extended, provided the stock is not readily
detachable, and the weapon is meant to be fired from the shoulder.

A destructive device (DD) can be two basic categories of things.
It can be an explosive, incendiary or poison gas weapon, like a
bomb or grenade. It can also be a firearm with a bore over 1/2",
with exceptions for sporting shotguns, among other things (see
discussion below). I call the second category large bore
destructive devices. As a general rule only this second category
is commercially available.

Any other weapons (AOW's) are a number of things; smooth bore
pistols, any pistol with more than one grip, (but see below) gadget
type guns (cane gun, pen gun) and shoulder fired weapons with both
rifled and smooth bore barrels between 12" and 18", that must be
manually reloaded (see discussion below).

Cop Killer ammo IS ILLEGAL. That means that it's regulated to Us LAW ABIDING CITIZENS and NOT! criminals.

As for Trigger locks It is a federal law that they are to be given out with Every LEGAL retail firearm sale they are also free for the taking at your local County Police Station. That doesn't mean that there should be a law to make people use them. You can lead a person to water but you can't make them think.

Did I cover everything? Let me know. I'll be glad to educate you some more.

[L K Day]

Good work. One small correction however, machine guns and silencers aren't exactly illegal, they're highly regulated. That is, you can't legally possess either without jumping through all the regulatory hoops and paying (often exhorbitant) fees, etc.

[Crankmas]

when bongs are outlawed- only outlaws will have bongs

[ReachHigh]

Here's video of a bunch of good 'ol boys playing with machine guns and gasoline. Somewhere in Southeast America, I guess. Well, OK, Kentucky.

Also several gun rangers in KY you can rent autos, I rented an MP5 with my girlfriend a couple of months ago, Expensive but Fun!