I don't recall seeing or hearing about this either way, but is it really a matter of hearsay, belief or opinion or is there actual data on this? Hasn't some independent source conducted polls in Iraq?DriskellHR wrote:I know many men I served with that say the majority of iraqis want us there and welcome our efforts. don't belive everything you see on mainsteam media. contoversy sells.....Jammer wrote:Doesn't the majority of Iraqis want us to leave completely and never come back? I don't know if this is true. Is it?
Angelina Jolie on Iraq
Angelina's dad is John Voight who's quite conservative on foreign policy. Don't know if he had any influence on his little girl.
I beleive whenever they polled the Iraqis it went something like this;
q. Do you want the US out of your country? a. yes, absolutely
Thats the part the msm were happy to report.
Then the pollsters added a single word to the question.
q. Do you want the US out of your country now? a. no, not now
The Iraqis know what will happen as soon as we're gone.
We do have a moral obligation to do everything we can to help that country get back on it's feet. Especially, now that the security situation has improved. btw, I was against us going in there in the first place, but once you start something like this, you can't just walk away when it gets difficult. To leave right away will ruin Iraq and ruin our countries credibility for years to come. I could say a lot more but I'll wait to see what ya'll say.
I beleive whenever they polled the Iraqis it went something like this;
q. Do you want the US out of your country? a. yes, absolutely
Thats the part the msm were happy to report.
Then the pollsters added a single word to the question.
q. Do you want the US out of your country now? a. no, not now
The Iraqis know what will happen as soon as we're gone.
We do have a moral obligation to do everything we can to help that country get back on it's feet. Especially, now that the security situation has improved. btw, I was against us going in there in the first place, but once you start something like this, you can't just walk away when it gets difficult. To leave right away will ruin Iraq and ruin our countries credibility for years to come. I could say a lot more but I'll wait to see what ya'll say.
"Doin' right aint got no end." - CRLT
i'm going to take the obvious liberal view here, but i'm all about getting out of iraq (yes, not tomorrow, but asap, as is reasonable). bear in mind my expertise is not international affairs. however, i'll take the platform that we have enough to deal with in our own country. sometimes i feel like we turn our back on our own citizens-suddenly, we have a moral obligation to help iraq citizens, but to suggest that every u.s. citizen deserves health care puts people up in arms. "people are lazy"; "i don't want to pay for someone else's health care." guess what-we are spending BILLIONS on the iraq war. guess where this money comes from?
i know the two countries are different, but people suffer in the u.s., too. and what about the soldiers coming back with injuries, both physical and mental? i've heard enough of those stories firsthand to make me doubt that the overall opinion of the u.s. military is to stay.
i know the two countries are different, but people suffer in the u.s., too. and what about the soldiers coming back with injuries, both physical and mental? i've heard enough of those stories firsthand to make me doubt that the overall opinion of the u.s. military is to stay.
Courtesy of Andrew: "I don't think you will damage your escort unless she trips because she is so strung out on blow. Most people just take them to the rest area."
I'm all for helping the Iraqis but the Bush administration just wants to control/pacify them enough to gain a political/economic foothold in the region. Most of the problems in Iraq spring from a reaction to our ulterior motives. If our large military presence was replaced by a large international peacekeeping/humanitarian force things would be better in the long run. There are going to be power struggles and conflicts either way but if the bully leaves there won't be as much motivation for rebellion and chaos.
A large international peacekeeping force isn't going to happen. We can't even get the euroweenies to help us out enough in Afganistan and thats a war they say they agree with. Humanitarian assistence can't happen w/out the security provided by our military. Without that security they're sitting ducks. The UN? Forget about it. They're powerless to stop what's going on in Darfur. What makes you think they could do anything in Iraq?Jammer wrote:I'm all for helping the Iraqis but the Bush administration just wants to control/pacify them enough to gain a political/economic foothold in the region. Most of the problems in Iraq spring from a reaction to our ulterior motives. If our large military presence was replaced by a large international peacekeeping/humanitarian force things would be better in the long run. There are going to be power struggles and conflicts either way but if the bully leaves there won't be as much motivation for rebellion and chaos.
When it comes to real security, the US military is it.
The power stuggles are because when we went in we completely removed the existing power structure and we didn't have anything to replace it with. That policy was almost as dumb as Bush and co. thinking it was all going to be easy and over quickly. So we removed the dictator, his whole govt. and army creating a power vacuum which we didn't have a large enough presence to fill. Naturally, various factions saw their chance and tried to seize power through violence. The surge strategy has tamped down that violence and the long slow process of reconciliation is taking place. The Iraqi army is getting more capable all the time. BTW, it takes ten years to train up a fully capable self sufficient army, yet another thing Bush neglected to tell the public. If we leave, it will unravel very quickly and we'll see much worse violence.
Al-Quaida is the bully. The Sunnis in Anbar province flipped and got onboard with the US because they got sick of AQs brutal tactics against them (the Sunni tribes) and they saw that our military has to follow rules and respect their culture. That's not to say that the military hasn't made mistakes in this war, especially early on. But now theyr'e getting it right and deserve to have the chance to finish the job. BTW, the Iraqi govt. finally passed some of the political benchmarks. Progress is slow but it is happening.
"Doin' right aint got no end." - CRLT
As long as the US is perceived as being there to gain a foothold in the region there are going to be major problems. We can beat back the insurgents with enough time and force but we can't change the perception that created them unless we demonstrate that our only motive is to help. This would also change how other countries see us. We could still use our military and money as part of a peacekeeping force if we make it obvious we are only trying to help. If we pumped billions of dollars into Darfur and used our military for peacekeeping we could probably bring the violence to a minimum. Other countries don't want to help the US for the same reasons the insurgents want to kill us. This all would never happen, of course, since if we decided not to establish a power base in the middle east we would pack up and let them fight it out.
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Another of the people present raised his hand, and asked how sorcerers are able to reconcile the principles of the warrior's way with their duties to society.
He answered:
... "He (don Juan) taught me that to feel pity for others is inappropriate for a warrior because pity for others always stems from concern for the self. He used to ask me, pointing at people we met on our way, 'Perhaps you believe yourself better than them?" ...
"The tragedy of today's man is not his social condition, but the lack of will to change himself. It is very easy to design collective revolutions; but to genuinely change, to put an end to self-pity, to erase the ego, to abandon our habits and whims... ah, that's something else entirely! Sorcerers say that true rebellion, and humanity's only way out as a species, is to stage a revolution against their own stupidity. As you can understand, this is solitary work." ...
Carlos Castaneda
Answering questions at a private lecture as recalled by Armando Torres
He answered:
... "He (don Juan) taught me that to feel pity for others is inappropriate for a warrior because pity for others always stems from concern for the self. He used to ask me, pointing at people we met on our way, 'Perhaps you believe yourself better than them?" ...
"The tragedy of today's man is not his social condition, but the lack of will to change himself. It is very easy to design collective revolutions; but to genuinely change, to put an end to self-pity, to erase the ego, to abandon our habits and whims... ah, that's something else entirely! Sorcerers say that true rebellion, and humanity's only way out as a species, is to stage a revolution against their own stupidity. As you can understand, this is solitary work." ...
Carlos Castaneda
Answering questions at a private lecture as recalled by Armando Torres
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh