USFS Military Wall Project

[Paul3eb]

Mon Capitan,

Regarding the LAC process, I'd like to ask a blunt question and 'cut to the quick'. How does the current state of the LAC process lead to (or not to) new routes being approved/cleaned/bolted on FS land?

interesting and quick note:

at the recent kentucky gis conference, a few of the supervisors from dbnf gave a presentation about using gis to manage recreate in the rrg, specifically in the clifty wilderness areas. the three guys giving the presentation all were involved with the dbnf and the lac. one even did his master's thesis on the impact of climbing in the rrg.. i'll find out if he's ok with me posting a link to his thesis..

they also discussed how it's being used to help the lac process along. honestly, i didn't know much of anything about the process except that it was just that: a process working to establish a common ground for many user groups.

afterwards, i realized how wide the spectrum of possibilities are on this: groups that want complete conservation to groups that want almost complete use. it's the ability to get a consensus, or at least majority, going with one alternative or another. that is going to directly influence how we as climbers get to use the land.

still, i'm mostly in the dark about it. do what you can to get educated, contact the dbnf, contact the rrgcc, contact static. be patient and have faith. we all want climbing to be accessible, we really do.

and i promise i'll get off my ass soon and actually finish up another newsletter so you know a bit more of what's going on. it'd already be out if i didn't suck quite so much

[ynot]

That's a pretty good overview of it ,Paul but it seems to me that they get mired in it till it takes years.

[pigsteak]

so what happens if after 15 years of us being polite and not climbing those routes, they "close" it anyway....? seems to me it is closed now anyway...

are they hoping that a new batch of pre-teens will then be the rock gods, and have no idea military wall even exists, because the Vanilla Factory and Hell fer Certain Crag are the latest rage?

[KD]

so what happens if after 15 years of us being polite and not climbing those routes, they "close" it anyway....? seems to me it is closed now anyway...

are they hoping that a new batch of pre-teens will then be the rock gods, and have no idea military wall even exists, because the Vanilla Factory and Hell fer Certain Crag are the latest rage?

then we do like the tribe and say "now where the fuggawee?"

[Paul3eb]

so what happens if after 15 years of us being polite and not climbing those routes, they "close" it anyway....? seems to me it is closed now anyway...

yeah, that's a possibility, but it sounds like they're open to our thoughts on the matter. in the end, it depends on what everyone wants and if our needs/wants are part of that.

and if they do close it forever, hey, that's life. despite everything that i hope and wish for, not all climbing will forever be accessible.

and you know, maybe that's best in some strange, twisted, deeper way.

[captain static]

First, to address Tom, what has been accomplished in LAC is to shift the attention away from individual climbs to the impact at the base of one or more climbs. When LAC is completed additional routes and even whole areas may be allowed as long as the Limits of Acceptable Change are not exceeded and there is no conflict with cultural or biological resources. In other words climbing areas will be approved or disapproved by the FS instead of individual routes. The location of routes within an approved area will be up to climbers. As far as bolting, this would be allowed in an approved area except, of course, in the Clifty Wilderness where no new fixed anchors are allowed.

As far as areas along the cliffline that have been fenced off due to conflicts with cultural resources, including Military, this is completely separate from LAC. There we are completely at the mercy of the FS and the Memorandum of Understanding that they have with the State Historic Preservation Office (SHPO). More bad news here. From what I understand due to staffing problems the DBNF will have no archaeologists after Johnny Faulkner retires in about a month.

[KD]

what happened to cecil ison? is he retired?

[captain static]

Yes, Cecil Ison retired.

[rhunt]

Bill, is it "no fixed anchors in Cliffy Wilderness", or 'no power drills in Cliffy Wilderness"?

[captain static]

Both. No new fixed anchors and no motorized equipment.