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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:40 pm
by pawilkes
when i was living in KY it seemed like people were more honest about any bigotries they had but seemed to get on better with the people they had these views against than people do in Wisconsin. I thought it was very interesting really. so much of the society up here is pasty that even if people are like "all people are equal" they still get scared when they see a black guy walking down the street because they've had such interaction with people of other races that all they know is what the media makes them out to be. I still like being a country boy and not growing up in the city but i wish there was a bit more diversity so that i was more comfortable around people of all races. Milwaukee incidentally is one of the most segregated cities in the country!
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:45 pm
by Meadows
Wikipedia wrote:Controversy
Displaying the flag
The display of the Confederate flag remains a highly controversial and emotional issue, generally because of disagreement over the nature of its symbolism. Opponents of the Confederate flag see it as an overt symbol of racism, both for the history of racial slavery in the United States, and the establishment of Jim Crow laws by Southern states following the end of Reconstruction in late 1870s, enforcing racial segregation within state borders for nearly a century until the Civil Rights Movement. Others view the flag as a symbol of rebellion against the federal government of the United States. While the Confederate flag is indeed used by some racist and White Supremacist groups, these are far from the only ones to fly or support it. Many Southerners who support the Confederate flag see it as a heritage and historical symbol, representing pride and rememberance in their ancestors who survived years of war under terrible odds and sacrifice. In their view, to stereotype those who support the flag as being "racist" is an insulting generalization.
As a result of these varying perceptions, there have been numerous political controversies surrounding the use of the Confederate flag in Southern state flags, at sporting events, at Southern universities, and on public buildings. According to Civil War historian and native Southerner Shelby Foote, the flag traditionally represented the South's resistance to Northern political dominance; it became racially charged during the Civil Rights Movement, when fighting against desegregation suddenly became the focal point of that resistance.
Over time the flag has acquired a wide range of meanings, some apparently contradicting others. Since the C.S.A. were fighting for independence during the American Civil War, much as the United States did during the U.S. War of Independence, the Confederate flag has always had connotations of rebellion, patriotism, self-determination, dissent, freedom, and liberty. Since the issues of racial slavery and, later, segregation, are deeply intertwined with the C.S.A. and the Civil Rights Movement, the Confederate flag can also be considered to have connotations of racism and slavery. Symbols of the Confederacy remain a contentious issue across the United States, and has been debated vigorously in many Southern state legislatures over their civic placement since the 1990s.
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:01 pm
by charlie
I can't answer for anyone else and I'm not really sure where I stand on the issue as MANY of these southern kids w/ stars and bars are some of the most courteous and kindest people I know. They would help someone change a tire on the side of the road, regardless of race.*
That said, knowingly using a symbol that will hurt or anger people is not my style.
If you want to run with some southern heritage so the fukkin yankees know they will never be locals use this one.....
*sadly I think this has all changed since Sept 11. Shameless racism seems to run rampant in this country once again.
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:28 pm
by Mboss
Growing up in the South (Asheville, NC), there were a lot of confederate flags flying and a lot of rainbow flags for that matter. I feel like if you grow up with the confederate flag flying all around you feel like it is more a symbol of heritage. I truly think most Southerners fly the confederate flag more to say Fuck the Yankees thank to say Fuck African-Americans.
That being said I try to avoid personally displaying symbols that offend an entire race.
However, being Southern is still something I'm proud of.
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:52 pm
by ashtray
asdf
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:56 pm
by ashtray
asdf
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:06 pm
by Meadows
It didn't remain neutral - KY had ~90,000 soldiers on both sides.
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:35 pm
by ashtray
asdf
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:50 pm
by charlie
ashtray wrote:Now, when I see one of these republican banners on a pickup truck I am going to be concerned.
Classic!
ashtray wrote:Word up Mboss. I am proud to be southern. But to you real southerners, Kentuckians aren't considered southern. .....
Maybe around here where we've been infiltrated but that is most def not the attitude in my home state of Western Kentucky, where you can see the Jefferson Davis Monument.
ashtray wrote:Thanks for calling me on my bullshit....
No problem.
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:54 pm
by Wes
George Carlin has a nice rant about "they are only words" which would apply to symbols as well. Pretty much, it isn't the symbol that is important, it is the person displaying the symbol that is. If you like the fly the stars and bars, listen to Sweet home Alabama, and drink some bourbon and ale-8, that doesn't mean you think any more or less of a different race. You could not do any of those things, but yet use race as a reason to do harm to someone. And while the south may have lost "the war of northern aggression", that doesn't mean Southerner's can't still be proud of their lifestyle. The indians lost their war against US imperialism, so does that mean they shouldn't display any symbols of their tribe/people?
So, it isn't the symbol that matters it is the person behind it that does. And while that is what I think is true, that doesn't mean that words and symbols are not painful for some people to deal with because of how they associate them to negative meanings.