RRC Archives

krampus - Clearly Mr. Evil believes that "get the fuck out of the Islamist's holy land" is exactly what we should do. Yep, give Al Queida and/or Iran free run of Iraq and the rest of the Middle East and see what life in America becomes. Now that would be a bold experiment. One that almost any sane individual would council against.

I agree with the "get the fuck out of the holy land" principal too, it does not mean that I am stupid enough to just leave after all we have done over there and with the current situations. I know a lot of nice baptists, but I also know a lot of nice Muslims. Except I know a lot more bat shit crazy baptists than I do nice baptist, nice Muslims combined. I don't know any terrorists.

krampus - Even you amaze me. Over the last few years Islamists have blown up many thousands of innocent people in THOUSANDS of individual attacks in DOZENS of countries. They chop off the heads of schoolgirls, journalists, religious leaders, truck drivers, other muslims, anyone that they see as the "other". They actually see this as their duty to god. And you suggest that it is the Baptists that are batshit crazy. I ain't no Baptist, but I've met a few, and they didn't seem any crazier than anyone else. Maybe the Baptists are still in the planning stages of their big head chopping festivities. Is that what you think?

I'm afraid that by the standards well established by the Islamists, the poor Baptists don't know nothin' about crazy.

sure there methods are a bit outdated, we just bomb inocent schoolgirls and burry them in a pile a rubble so that we don't have to actualize what we have done. We do call it an accident though so I guess we are not accountable. I suppose I am glad that we are on top, for now, cus I am sure our lives would be fucked as much as theirs are now if the tables were turned

krampus - please understand what's going on. This is war in the information age. In Lebanon, Hezbola sp? places their rocket launchers in the center of the most heavily populated areas precisely because this puts Israel in the position where they cannot defend themselves without killing Lebanese civilians. Hezbola knows they cannot defeat Israel, but they know that the western press might be able to. It is Hezbola's actions that lead to the death of innocent children, but because Hezbola does such a good job of controlling the western media, Israel takes the blame.

Same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan. We're trying to bring two countries back from the most barbaric forms of government, and we're painted as the bad guys. Can't you see this? You are being played for a sucker, not by Bushhitler, but by the enemies of all that is civilized in this world. If we lose our resolve, and give in to these maniacs, our decadent lives are over. No climbing, no movies, no good times with the girls, no freedom to pursue whatever you want in life. Just drop to your fucking knees and pray every five minutes. It's that serious. Not saying that will happen next week for God's sake. But, the Islamists are thinking on a timescale of centuries, and they believe that is inevitable that they will rule the world. We will be far better off, and far fewer innocents will die, if we disabuse them of these ideas right fucking now.

I am really not trying to sound like I am defending these guys, I am jsut trying to understand where they are comming from and not be suckered by blanket statements about ideologies of hate and the innocent dove getting its neck snapped. If there is ever going to be any hope for peaceof any kind, we must open our eyes and understand why we hate each other. Then we might be able to work around our differences instead of exploit them. In the end, I would fight to preserve all the freedomes that we have been blessed with, but I am not into picking at scabs.

Very well and good. This is the way civilized people should try to settle their differences. But what should we do when we face and intractable enemy? Delude ourselfs and try to negotiate with those who see our attempts at understanding as a sign of weakness? Chamberlain was convinced that Hitler was a reasonable man that Great Britain could deal with. This belief brought disastrous consequences for the British people. Only after the German empire was crushed could Europeans agree to kiss and make up.

The world wide Islamic uprising will be defeated, but will this be before or after unspeakable horrors are visited on the West? What they have in mind for us is death and destruction on a scale that dwarfs the attacks of 9-ll. Do we stop them before or after an American city goes up in a mushroom cloud? A reasonable person might think it's not that tough a choice.

You have hit on the key question (well you almost did) which is, "How do we counter these people?" The current administration's answer is, "Bomb the fuck out of everything and everybody." I think the best answer would be to get out of there and let the locals take care of it. One theory I've read is that without our presence the Iraqis would immediately turn on the outsiders (Al-Qaeda, et. al.) and kick them the fuck out of their country. Our presence in their holy lands is the fuel for the fire. The more we stay the more fuel they have, the more people they can recruit to their cause. I'm sure the "right" answer is somewhere in the middle but keeping on like we are is not working.

The problem with the politics of fear is it fights against logic and reason. We are told to be so afraid of "terrorists" and how evil they are. You mentioned England and 9/11 as reasons we should put all our efforts into this "war" and let the administration do whatever they want or we're "treasonous" and "defeatists." Might I suggest you actually speak with some people from Britain or Israel or Spain before you decide how they feel about this. All three of these countries have been dealing directly with terrorism for decades and they have countered it with excellent police work, education, and (except in the case of Israel) a constant dialogue with their "terrorists." Why don't we learn from example? It's because for the current devolution of our government, laws, and society to proceed we need to be in fear mode. The fear mode feeds the military industrial complex which in turn must breed more fear so it can get more money. Odd but I know people that live in Eastern Kentucky (a sure bet for a terrorist attack) that are more fearful about terrorism than my friends that live in London (where IRA bombings were once quite common). Why is this? It's because the fascists that run the show keep them afraid with lies and exaggerations.

There's this thing called perspective. Take a look at this picture and note that terrorism doesn't even make the list:



Here's an even bigger list from 2003: http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm

FAR More people will die in the United States this year due to handguns (12,000) than died in 9/11. Even more (45,000) will die in car accidents. More will die falling down (17,000). All of these deaths are awful in their own right. Each one causes heartbreak amongst families, crushing medical bills, damage to property, and everything else that goes with untimely death. I am not saying we should ignore hostile intents from abroad like terrorists or North Korea. But I am saying we should look at the actual risk and react accordingly.

One problem with this is the administration and their media allies (Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, etc.) have brainwashed a really large segment of this population into believing that Iraq has or ever had anything to do with 9/11. The war in Iraq is, was, and will continue to be a gigantic fuckup that makes our position in the world weaker, and increases the threat from terrorism.

I know you want to paint me as an all or none left winger as your right wing pundit heroes imagine. I was firmly in agreement with the invasion of Iraq and the pursuit and elimination of Osama Bin Laden and his entire organization. We left that (and it would appear we're now barely holding our own in Afghanistan) for this foolish escapade in Iraq. Here we are, five years later, with Bin Laden still on the loose and ordering attacks and assassinations, more hated in the Middle East than ever before, Al-Qaeda is expanding exponentially with recruiting powers we continue to feed. In the meantime, the administration's cronies (and even some of its members like the Vice President) have been reaping obscene profits from this bullshit yet you think it's somehow treason to protest? I should snap into line and goosestep with you, hailing the idiot ruler because... because you say so? There is no good reason to support George W Bush, only simple minded obedience. The man is a thief and an idiot.

I (and most of the rest of Americans) don't believe this administration has improved our security. If any of our cities disappears in a mushroom cloud the neo-cons would be at fault. They've pissed away our resources tilting at windmills or going after the man that tried to kill our "President's" "daddy" instead of going after the real criminals that want to get a nuke and blow it up.

Once again for those of you too dense to understand this: Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Here's a little film of the President himself admitting this: http://thinkprogress.org/2006/08/21/bush-on-911/

Invading Iraq was all about preventing the next 9/ll. It had nothing to do with avenging the last 9/ll or bringing to justice the perpetrators of that horrible event. As such it was a judgement call, a call that many in this country find it impossible to accept, even after they voted in favor of the invasion. We know politicians are slimeballs. What I can't accept is that after the going got tough these cowards wanted to wash their hands of responsibility, claim they were lied to, and make political hay. Despite all the revisionist history, most every intelligence agency on earth believed that Sadam was pursuing the acquisition of weapons of mass destruction in direct violation of the terms under which the previous hostilities had been halted. Even that lieing piece of shit Joe Wilson submitted a report that tended to lend support to the belief that Iraq was trying to acquire uranium from Niger. Today he is glorified as speaking truth to power when he lies and says he debunked that notion of Iraq's intent to aquire Uranium. The fact is he did nothing of the kind. He just knows which way the political winds are blowing.

The bottom line is that we are in Iraq, and that the consequences of defeat would be extrordinarily negative for this country. We can win, mistakes of the past are being corrected, and we simply must win. It disgusts me to no end to see the leaders of my democratic party trying to throw the war for their own political gain. These people are beneath contempt.

As for your Hillbilly friends in West Virginia (sorry, Kentucky), they are not as stupid as you think. They fear terrorist attacks not because they would be targeted, but because Americans would be targeted, and they identify with their fellow citizens, even if said citizens are New Fuckin Yorkers.

As for your chart, I don't see the risk of dieing as a soldier in Iraq anywhere on it. Statistically speaking, it's roughly the same as dieing at the hands of a terrorist. So that wouldn't make the list either.