RRC Archives

captain static wrote:As Terry would have said, "Why are you belaying with a rappelling device?"

That's pretty funny.

Definately ATC Guide-it has much better holding power than a reverso any day-I got rid of my reverso (only used it once) due to the fact it sucks compaired to the ATC guide.

captain static wrote:As Terry would have said, "Why are you belaying with a rappelling device?"

Thanks static.. I had almost forgotten about that one.

overhung wrote:anything that needs a graphic illustration on how to feed the rope is too complicated...

I hate to put such an abrupt end to this fascinating discussion, but the ATC Guide has such an illustration, thus making it too complicated to be worth any serious consideration.

While I'm here though, I do own a guide but I actually use a gri-gri way more. A gri-gri works a lot better for long routes, because you get the auto-block feature with lead and top-rope climbing. I'm a lot more concerned that I'll get hit on the head while belaying a leader than a second. Also, the gri-gri feeds so much easier for belaying a second. The locker has a tendency to stick while using the guide in auto-lock mode. The only reason to use a guide instead of a gri gri is price and the ability to do a double line rappel. I would just carry a light atc, suck it up, and use the gri gri.

big_brother wrote:

overhung wrote:anything that needs a graphic illustration on how to feed the rope is too complicated...

I hate to put such an abrupt end to this fascinating discussion, but the ATC Guide has such an illustration, thus making it too complicated to be worth any serious consideration.

While I'm here though, I do own a guide but I actually use a gri-gri way more. A gri-gri works a lot better for long routes, because you get the auto-block feature with lead and top-rope climbing. I'm a lot more concerned that I'll get hit on the head while belaying a leader than a second. Also, the gri-gri feeds so much easier for belaying a second. The locker has a tendency to stick while using the guide in auto-lock mode. The only reason to use a guide instead of a gri gri is price and the ability to do a double line rappel. I would just carry a light atc, suck it up, and use the gri gri.

I was being a little facetious about the complication thing. I just like the ATC simplicity. Therefore, the ATC Guide it is.

Gri-Gri.

overhung wrote:

big_brother wrote:

overhung wrote:anything that needs a graphic illustration on how to feed the rope is too complicated...

I hate to put such an abrupt end to this fascinating discussion, but the ATC Guide has such an illustration, thus making it too complicated to be worth any serious consideration.

While I'm here though, I do own a guide but I actually use a gri-gri way more. A gri-gri works a lot better for long routes, because you get the auto-block feature with lead and top-rope climbing. I'm a lot more concerned that I'll get hit on the head while belaying a leader than a second. Also, the gri-gri feeds so much easier for belaying a second. The locker has a tendency to stick while using the guide in auto-lock mode. The only reason to use a guide instead of a gri gri is price and the ability to do a double line rappel. I would just carry a light atc, suck it up, and use the gri gri.

I was being a little facetious about the complication thing. I just like the ATC simplicity. Therefore, the ATC Guide it is.

I wasn't being entirely serious either. However, I really do think an auto-block device is really important. I almost got knocked out last year while belaying with an ATC. With a little more force, I would have dropped my climber. An ATC is simple, reliable, and the time-tested device. It's just so much safer and easier to use a grigri or cinch.

Gri-Gris are great for lead and top belay, they are way easier on your elbows! The atc guide is great for belaying up two peeps at one time (rarely used in recreational climbing). The gri-gri is also great for rappelling (you already have a back-up on). And of course you can simul-rap to be more efficient.

I also use the ATC guide as a solo top-roping device. Works better than a gri-gri, because you don't have to worry about any mechanical parts breaking such as the rotating cam inside the gri-gri.

Also the reverso allows too much rope slip and doesn't auto-lock worth a dime when set up properly. The ATC-guide does much better due to the fact of how it's manufactured-the ribbing used to create the friction is made into the ATC as a single unit and not a seperate unit like the reverso. The reverso has a separate piece of metal used to create friction and it's not located on the inside of the device like the ATC-guide (compare pics of each device).

Snowpuppy,
Wondering why you don't use an asender such as an Ushba or a Petzl Mini-Traxion as a solo tr device? These are both self feeding and work much better. I guess the only down fall would be switching into decent mode.
As far as the gri-gris cam breaking I don't see that happening. If this is going to break in a short top-rope fall I would think that they would break all the time in leader falls?
And switching into decent mode on a gri-gri requires one step... pull the lever!

Karsten