RRC Archives

anti..I hear ya man....but I am talking more about modern lines. "don't bolt cracks" is a way over used statement to defend trad climbing. but as we both know, a ton of lines have face horizontals that take gear...what's up with the purist ideal of not bolting cracks, but other, just as easily protectable lines, see bolts? I honestly don't get it.

I think you've taken liberties with the term "crack", the don't bolt cracks I thought pertained to vertical hand/finger classics, but what do I know I voted.

right...a six foot crack in the middle of a face hardly deserves to be free from those evil bolts.

SCIN...can you jam your springy thingy in a crack for us?

Piggie, I'll bring a protractor with me next time we go climbing. We can determine at exactly how many degrees away from vertical does it become okay to place a bolt next to a crack in the rock.

piggy...all the "trad" lines at the Red (esp the ones with fixed anchors) are simply gear routes. There's not much "trad" about most routes at the Red.

Thus say me...so end of discussion.

rhunt..so a "gear" route is not a "trad" route? thanks for really clarifying this thing.

yasmeen, we purists don't bolt cracks, no matter how steep. heck, traddies don't even climb lines that are past vert...it would seem too much like bouldering, and we know that is just practice.

i agree with you piggie pig, we should all sack up and start doing this stuff on gear. the grades may have progressed slower but at least we'd still have our balls between our legs. (or labia) strip the bolts and bust out the thingy mabobbers.

There are probably no "mixed routes" in the Red. There are sport routes and trad routes. Some of the trad routes have some fixed gear. The use of the term "mixed" to designate a trad route with at least one bolt is a rather quaint local custom.

Mr. Day..how much fixed gear can a line have and still be a trad line?

Anti, so I say we put it to a vote. Starting in 2007, if someone sends a route on gear, then all the bolts should be chopped. I will offer up any of my routes for this sacrifice. Only rules are that you can't be a wuss and climb the thing on the bolts first. Gotta go ground up on sight. If you do this, let me know, and I give you permission to chop the bolts.

PS- I want my hangers back. Any takers?

It can be 100% fixed gear and still be trad. Many Tuolumne and Joshua Tree classics are 100% bolt protected. These routes were established ground up, on lead, and are most definitely not sport climbs.