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tried some of the exercises today in the gym, worked me good, nice link, always good to mis up my core routine

OB Juan wrote:

Mike Jones wrote:I increase my core strength and conditioning by climbing 5.11



Considering the number of guts I've seen hanging from 5.10's and 5.11's I doubt very much if there's any core conditioning occurring on those routes

My gut loves climbing 5.10's and 5.11's. And it's just happy with it.

Training takes all the fun out of it.

"core strength" is a fad.

Yes, strong abs and back muscles help stablize you on the rock. But nothing can, or ever will replace a proper warmup.

Weak people can climb at their limit and not get hurt if they warm up.

Also, the last person I heard raving about core strength had a major tendon blow in his right hand roughly two weeks after proclaiming "my core strength is through the roof right now!"

who doesn't warm up though, i was a cross country runner/discus thower (wierd i know) for 6 years, warming up is a given, not somthing new. as the arical was about colligite athleats, i bet it assumes warming up is a given as well. adding core strengh work outs after my cardio routiune is part of the next step of injury prevention/strenth training

For people who are already in good shape, and who already warm up properly, it sounds like a good thing to further improve your overall robustness.
But the original poster presented it as a sort of cureall, which is why I responded why I did. Many climbers, if not most climbers fail to warm up properly most of the time, which I think is the cause of most non-fall related injuries. And the other injuries are usually tendons, which really don't seem like they would benefit that much from more core strength, but warming up makes a huge difference there.

Overall flexibility would also do more to prevent injury in my opinion than core strength.

As the original poster I'd like to state that Never did I post this thread as a cure all for anything. I posted it as a consideration for those people choosing to advance themselves in a responsible manor. Part of a routine to improve skill reduce the chance of injury and acheive quicker. Your interpretation of things is your failure to have an open mind not my failure to present information.

Looks like a good time to present more data.

Her's some additional info. It's kind of basic but it will help those interested in developing good fundamentals

http://houstonultimate.org/Articles/Cor ... ioning.pdf

Oh If it seems like I'm conceited in this area please forgive me it's not my intention. I just so happen to be a certified trainer working in physical therapy as well as a climber while working on a double major in pre med and Kinesiology (exercise science). My focus is exercise physiology, anatomy, and biomechanics. So, those are my qualifications to discuss this topic. How about you nay sayers?

OB Juan wrote:Oh If it seems like I'm conceited in this area please forgive me it's not my intention. I just so happen to be a certified trainer working in physical therapy as well as a climber while working on a double major in pre med and Kinesiology (exercise science). My focus is exercise physiology, anatomy, and biomechanics. So, those are my qualifications to discuss this topic. How about you nay sayers?

My only qualification is that I've been a climber for 12 years, and was an active volleyball player for most of the last 10 years. And I was a competitive runner in highschool. I've suffered injuries in all 3 sports. And all were due to a lack of proper warming up, or in the case of volleyball/running, some knee problems caused by a lack of symmetry and bad feet. (1 leg longer than the other, and pronation in both feet, but more in one than the other).

The only exception I can think of was when I tried to do a hard boulder problem after a long day of climbing and blew a tendon. But I think that had a lot to do with being tired, and slightly dehydrated, or just not re-warming up after being off of a climb for an hour or so.

OB Juan wrote:The single most cause of limb injury in climbing and all other dynamic sports (not including fall injuries) is poor core conditioning and lack of core strength.

That's the statement I have issue with. I'm not sure of what your definition of limb injury is, but it makes me think of arms and legs, elbows, shoulders, knees etc. If you told me that lack of core strength was the number one cause of back injuries I might believe you. But when it comes to shoulders, and elbows, and knees and associated musles, I'm going to have to disagree strongly. I've done no "core" conditioning ever, but if I hit a volleyball really hard without warming up my shoulder hurts like a bitch. If I warm up for 10-15 minutes first, then I feel fine.

I suppose that if we're talking about pro-athletes who are closely watched by trainers and coaches, then maybe your statement is true. But for the masses, its gotta be a lack of properly warming up, AND/OR a lack of flexibility due to never stretching or warming up. I've been climbing for a long time, and I've seen many cilmbers who do no warmup at all, and even the ones that do warmup usually only do one warmup climb which is usually either way too easy to be a proper warmup or way too hard. A gradual progresssion from about 2-3 grades below your limit seems to do the trick, but most people don't have the time or patience to do 2-3 warmup climbs, let alone stretch.

As for your qualifiations...without more context they mean nothing to me. I've met plenty of bad doctors, and plenty of bad physical therapists. Medicine is just like any other profession, some people are good at it, and some are bad. I'm sure core strength is a great thing to have, but its not the "single most cause of limb injury" for the general population.

EDIT: I just read all of your links. I stand by all of my previous statements. Core strength training is the latest fad. Those muscles will be hit by many other workouts, and anything that improves overall strength and flexibility will reduce the occurance of injury, but still can't come close to surpassing the kind of protection one gets from a good warmup, and some stretching.

Core weakness is in 'fact' (That statement is scientifically factual and well known among the medical and physical fitness communities) the single most culprit involved in injuries of the extremities of the human body. Your opinion on this is about as valuable as your ass. I've met tons of jocks who think they know more than they're coaches, trainers, physicians and therapists but that doesn't make them correct. It makes tham arrogant and foolish.This little fact about injuries and the lack of core strength is not only an issue among athletes (high school, collegiate or pro) it is very prevelant among the general population because like you they fail to train in that region of the body thinking if I train everything else I'll be fine my trunk gets a work out when I do this or that. Well your wrong and a sprained ankle from volleyball or a torn tendon from climbing doesn't make you knowledgeable about the avoidance of such injuries through proper training.

Further, I would suggest you research you stretching theory, it's old school,very old school, Stretching should be done after the workout to enhance flexibilty not proir. stretching prior to a workout has no impact on long term flexility, it can in FACT be the preceeding factor that causes a person to over extend a tendon beyond its normally functioning length and be a factor in the cause of the injury.

I would strongly suggest you do some research on the science of exercise, fitness and conditioning. My certification is from the American College of Sports Medicine, that'a all the context you need. My credentials are from a leading hospital in Kentucky and my education is from the same. And yes, I have worked with a few elite athletes.I'm just guessing here but I'll bet your are not.