RRC Archives

why not split into two groups and go to different locations. Bring 7 people to global and 7 people to pistol ridge, roadside, fortress, or some other crag.

Daniel Boone National Forest

Guidelines for Low Impact Climbing
Plan ahead and prepare

Find out what the local rules and regulations are before climbing.
Intentionally disperse your activity by selecting more remote areas; avoid the most popular crags.

Limit your group size to no more than 4-6 climbers.

Know whose land you are climbing on and what rules govern the property.
Camp and travel on durable surfaces
Follow established trails to reach the rock

Where no trails exist, spread out on durable ground, such as rock or gravel to avoid creating new paths.
Choose a campsite at least 300 feet from water, trails, clifflines, and rock shelters.
Do not camp under rock shelters or at the base of climbs.
Pack It In, Pack It Out

Please pick up trash when you find it. All food wastes, including fruit cores and peels, should be carried out.
Discarded tape and cigarette butts are unsightly. Bring a small plastic bag in your pack for trash and pack it out.
Properly dispose of what you can't pack out
Use toilets where available

If toilets aren’t available, urinate away from vegetation, climbing routes, streams and trails.
Dispose of solid human waste in a "cathole" at least 200 feet away from trails, the bases of climbs, water sources, or campsites; carry your own trowel for this reason.
Pack out your toilet paper in resealable plastic bags.
Leave what you find

Avoid trampling vegetation at bases of climbs and clifflines.
Avoid disturbance to all living things on cliffs (plants, lizards, salamanders, snakes, pack rats, bats, or nesting birds).
Do not cut, prune, or remove trees, shrubs, or vegetation to improve a climb.
Cliff bases have been the sites of occupation by humans for centuries. Do not dig or collect artifacts. Archaeological sites are protected by Federal law.
Minimize use and impact of fires

Fire rings and pits at the base of any cliff are unacceptable. Campfires contaminate cultural resource sites, making carbon-14 dating inaccurate.
Use a stove instead of a fire for cooking.
Minimize climbing impacts

Chipping or creating new holds is not acceptable.
Use removable protection and natural anchors wherever practical.
All new fixed anchor and bolt installation on the Stanton District must receive prior approval of the District Ranger.
Motorized drills are prohibited in the Clifty Wilderness area.
Use slings when rappelling from trees instead of rappelling with ropes directly around the tree trunk. Choose natural colors for slings if slings must be left behind.
Minimize chalk use and clean chalk off where you climb. Help out on local chalk clean-up days.
Remember you are in the forest, not in a gym; keep the noise level within reason--from the volume of your stereo to the words you let fly when you fail on that red-point attempt.
Keep your dog restrained on at least a 6-foot leash.

chriss wrote:why not split into two groups and go to different locations. Bring 7 people to global and 7 people to pistol ridge, roadside, fortress, or some other crag.

again, i'd like to do something like that but simply can't. i'm the only person who can put up three out of those four lines. that and to stay safe we need two staff with each group. their staff right now is.. five strong i think? one with a broken ankle. and two vehicles, one being a 12- or 15-passenger van. in all likelihood, splitting the group off to head to another crag would probably do one of two things: make the trip completely unfeasible or add cost to the kids and their parents (this is a youth climbing team this time).

i've tried to come up with better options but the arguments for global are kinda compelling: concentration of several easy routes; usually not crowded with other people so we're not in their way; away from a lot so we're not heard or seen. we try to be as courteous as we can to other climbers in the area.. hence this post giving a heads up..

again, we do our best to teach them lnt and to keep them on the rocks to minimize their impacts.

Are these 14 people experience climbers?
I can only assume not. So how are you going to moniter 14 people that don't know what is proper and what is not proper.

And just another assumption...Are these 14 people going to be top roping off those anchors all day.
Maybe you might drop off some donation money to replace the anchors after having people hang on them all day.

Im not bitter just a little Aw struck. Especially with everthing that has been going on in the climbing community latley.

As I read in a post on a recent existing problem else where in the community "We need to tip toe in and out" Just a suggestion

Man, Paul is one of the most courteous and conscience climbers out there. Him leading a group of 15 is less impact then many other groups of a lot fewer people. I have no doubt they will leave a very small footprint. It is not just about the numbers, it is about how they act. Two people can wreak havoc on an area pretty easy.

I think it is so cool that you are forced to break the FS rules. Breakin' the law, breakin the law.....

gullwing wrote:Are these 14 people experience climbers?
I can only assume not. So how are you going to moniter 14 people that don't know what is proper and what is not proper.

it's like anything else that people are introduced to for the first time: before they're thrown into it, guidelines are set up. and some of them have been on this trip before. before your first formal dinner i bet you were told what's acceptable and what's not.. it's just like that. for the most part it's similar to mark's situation: use common sense and common courtesy. we make sure they do both.

And just another assumption...Are these 14 people going to be top roping off those anchors all day.

of course not. i set up our own gear on the anchors and top-rope through our own gear. and the group has a huge rrgcc banner in their shop. they've also contributed gear to help with the area where the trail stops near the cliff (where they springy steps used to be).

"We need to tip toe in and out" Just a suggestion

i agree and we do. consider that this trip has been run 3-4 times a year for several years and, unless you were at the crag that day, you've probably never known about this. i suggested they post it because i think it's courteous to other people who are considering heading out there.

while not ideal, i see it as another chance to educate some kids about what is proper outdoor behavior/ethics as well as some of the issues.

Gullwing, give Paul3eb some credit, I don't know him, but, you are ASSuming way too much here, specially the toproping off the anchors part. He could've went to the crag with his large group not mentioning it to anyone, monopolized all four routes all day and you'd never been the wiser for it unless you happened upon GV yourself that day. Instead he gave a "to whom it may concern," probably knowing he was going to get flamed, so you can avoid the crowd if you so choose. I'll make an assumption, I'd doubt that all 14 people will be standing at the bottom of Eureka watching their pals climb; 4 routes, 19 people, about 5 at each route, only three of which are standing around...BIG DEAL, get a grip. An uneducated group of three can do way more damage, it probably did not take 14 people to build the fire under creature feature.

So you teach them by breaking the law! I get it now. Of course, it makes sense if you think about it. Breaking the law is worth a thousand pictures or signs or words or peer pressure. I guess we are never too old to learn. Thanks Paul.

This reminds me of the dog leash rule - that many think they're the exception.