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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:49 pm
by Zspider
Weber wrote:
But, if you define "good" as "credible from an engineering point of view" --then NO!
Neither Greg Rueff's photos nor mine, posted above, provide any credible engineering information.
*******************
There is no way I'd describe "good" in that way. Engineers are good at designing controlled tests with limited parameters, and there is an undeniable value in that. But bona fide real life performance trumps test results any day. Engineers designed the Tacoma bridge and the space shuttle.
ZSpider (electronics engineer)
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:52 pm
by Spragwa
This is a wonderful discussion and a huge wakeup call. Thanks to everyone who continues to provide the rest of us pedestrians with the information.
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:00 pm
by Rizzo
edited
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:32 pm
by merrick
wow, that is pretty crazy. thanks for the photos. it is good to never become complacent about any aspect of climbing.
Regarding the nylon. I was chatting with an AMGA guide a few years back about old slings that people use for rapping. He told me that they had been taking some really sun bleached horrible looking slings down and testing them and were competely shocked by how strong they still were. There were also completely shocked by how weak the old alluminum rap rings that were attached to the slings were. More food for thought.
I know this is completely anecdotal but the AMGA probably published the info from that study somewhere if you are curious.
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:24 am
by enduro
If you dont like the look of fixed draws on routes, dont climb on them. Put your own gear up. It takes money and time to put up fixed gear, and it helps a lot those who are working the routes. Instead of bitching about the quality of fixed gear, you should just replace the gear that you dont like.
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:24 am
by 512OW
Doesn't necessarily have anything to do with wear...
If the biner were clipped to the bolt in such a way that the jerk from the fall might have opened the gate at the instant of the impact, its strength was WAY compromised....
I've heard of brand new biners breaking this way from normal falls.
Nothings failsafe. Get over it.
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:54 am
by Danny
512OW wrote:
If the biner were clipped to the bolt in such a way that the jerk from the fall might have opened the gate at the instant of the impact, its strength was WAY compromised....
I've heard of brand new biners breaking this way from normal falls.
You should be able to tell if this happened by how the biner broke. If it was because the gate opened the biner may have elongated a bit before it snapped. Was the broken piece found?
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:03 am
by Spragwa
512OW wrote:
Nothings failsafe. Get over it.
Some people with knowledge, i.e. Rick, Nick, Hugh, Wes etc. care enough about climbing and other people to learn as much as possible about our gear and share the information with others out of concern...get over it.
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:29 am
by Paul3eb
the draws on convicted have been replaced since the "incident"
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:42 am
by 512OW
Spragwa wrote:512OW wrote:
Nothings failsafe. Get over it.
Some people with knowledge, i.e. Rick, Nick, Hugh, Wes etc. care enough about climbing and other people to learn as much as possible about our gear and share the information with others out of concern...get over it.
You're acting like this is a new thing. Don't you think biners have broken in the past? You can speculate forever on why this particular one broke...or you can get over it.
You're not gonna be able to stop it next time it happens.....so why bother?