RRC Archives

Lame Wade wrote:I say move this to the flame board so we can really have some fun with this!

Good idea you lame wade poser. Have at it.

You're right. I haven't climbed on glued holds. If it's on private property and the owner himself was doing it, oh well, it's his land to with what he wants. But in an area that I climb, I don't want glued or drilled holds.

Really? How do you know you aren't climbing on altered holds aready? And what about the altering a route to make it harder (like breaking of jugs to keep the grade .13)

To me, there is some grey area with chipping, drilling, and glueing. I know it is very PC to look at altering the rock as very, very evil, but it is hard to say when it is right or wrong.

Wes

Sure is nice to hear the concensus is that if you chip or drill, then you suck. That is what I'm hearing, right? 25 minutes from my apratment here in Denver you can drive to Boulder Sport Park and climb all day on manufactured routes. There is actually a GROUP of "climbers" who defend this crag and its 'ethics". I guess they got tired of putting up green taped routes inside. Ass-faces!!!

yeah, ass faces is accurate! I see no grey area at all with chipping or gluing. I believe a vast majority of climbers abhor the practices, without giving a rats ass about what is PC and what is not.

Well, I guess I would say that many, many routes out there are comfortized to one degree or another. And then there are "free" routes that are free with the help on pin scars. Or how about a aid route where you chip hook placements or trench head placements instead of a bolt ladde?

Have you ever seen a new sport route cleaned? There can be a lot of rock that is removed. Is that kind of "chipping" OK?

Wes

i am with wes, where does chipping start and cleaning stop? and what if you add glue to a hold to keep it from breaking off?

in general i am totally against chipping and mostly against glueing but it is not a black and white issue.

what is black and white is that you can't chip an established route intentionally to make it is easier. if you do you are a punting chufftard who needs their balls/ovaries removed with a pair of rusty pliars.

if in the course of climbing a route, pulling on the rock pulls it off, I would not call that chipping. New routes that I've been on seem to have quite a lot of loose rock that ends up at the base sooner or later. Would it be appropriate to glue on those holds which pull off by hand? Hell no. Would it be more appropriate on a mature route that has key holds loosen up over time (ie that problem on the video in question)? No again. Anyway, I don't call this chipping, and I don't believe it falls within the accepted definition of chipping. Anything done more forcibly than pulling off loose holds by hand (or foot) is trundling. Is trundling right? That depends.. perhaps this is the gray area you speak of, Wes? I agree that trundling is a gray area. But trundling is still not chipping. Carving out holds on the rock is chipping and I see it as a black and white issue. It's plain wrong.

Freeing old aid routes using pin scars for pro is perfectly acceptable. Once the route has been altered by pitons, it's done. It's too late. Maybe I'm missing your point on this example, Wes? (Wouldn't be the first time for me!) The pin scars themselves? Is that your question? Aid climbing leaves pin scars. Different ethics, though (speaking from my ignorance) I think clean aid would be the shiznit. But that's a different climbing discipline and I don't see the controversy or your point in how it applies to this discussion. Bashing pins into a free route should be punishable by torture and then death, though. Finally, chipping hook placements and trenching head placements sound wrong to me, but I don't know what is and isn't acceptable in the aid arena.

yea but what about using glue to firm up existing holds that will likely break off?

as I said above in my disseration, it's wrong. (Really, it's in there!) As usual I was wordy and confusing. I think it's wrong to glue on holds on new routes and on mature routes.

Merrick, in 6 posts you'll be special. I've missed you around here!