Wrench bolt size

Post by **lordjim_2001** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:39 pm

weber: are you talking about these types of glue ins?
http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/fixe- ... -bolt.html
http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/ushba ... -bolt.html

I thought that the hangers were integrated in the bolts.

Post by **weber** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:02 pm

lordjim_2001 wrote:weber: are you talking about these types of glue ins?
http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/fixe- ... -bolt.html
http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/ushba ... -bolt.html

I thought that the hangers were integrated in the bolts.

Those particular ones are integrated. Or, rather they are "eye-bolt-shaped." They are strong and very expensive. When these are heavily torqued, the entire bolt can fail. Although this is undoubtedly, a rare occurance, the bolt with its layer of glue can pop free of the hole. Unlike a loosened expansion bolt, this is a catastrophic failure. (By the way, it is not the adhesive that fails, but rather the sandstone that is immediately outside the sandstone that is impregnated with the adhesive.)

The glue-ins we are working with include this configuration: a 3/8-inch dia stainless steel threaded rod, glued about 5 inches deep in the rock. (This is the same size bolt as the one inside the 1/2-inch Dynabolt Gold.) We are trying epoxy and acrylic 2-part adhesives. A standard s.s. hanger bracket is attached to the protruding end of the threaded rod by an s.s. nut.

Like the Fixe and Ushba eye bolts, this threaded rod too can fail catastrophically. However, unlike the eye bolts, if the hanger is torqued loose while the threaded rod is still bound to the hole, the nut can be retightened.

Please note that I am NOT fond of glue-ins. And there are several other negatives not mentioned here. However, we owe it too ourselves to at least test the things against what we are currently using. If there is anyway to decrease the risk inherent with this (or any) climbing hardware, we will do it.

Rick

Post by **Meadows** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:28 pm

[edited by Meadows]

Post by **Mazz** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:05 pm

This idea just hit me. It may not be very useful or practical, but it might be something to test on a bolt or two.

It's my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) that the epoxy of a glue-in bolt bonds into the "fabric" of the rock. Well then, how about putting a thin layer of epoxy on the rock face around the bolt hole in just a large enough diameter to account for where the hanger would sit? The rock underneath would be protected by the epoxy and wouldn't erode away under the hanger. It might take some work to get the consistancy right so the epoxy doesn't run and it would be time consuming, but it might just work.

Any takers? Or, did I just hit my head too hard the other day?

Post by **weber** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:09 pm

Mazz wrote:This idea just hit me. It may not be very useful or practical, but it might be something to test on a bolt or two.

It's my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) that the epoxy of a glue-in bolt bonds into the "fabric" of the rock. Well then, how about putting a thin layer of epoxy on the rock face around the bolt hole in just a large enough diameter to account for where the hanger would sit? The rock underneath would be protected by the epoxy and wouldn't erode away under the hanger. It might take some work to get the consistancy right so the epoxy doesn't run and it would be time consuming, but it might just work.

Any takers? Or, did I just hit my head too hard the other day?

Good idea.

See my previous postings in this thread:

"Soon, I hope to test some hangers attached by Dynabolt Golds -- with and without a tough, weatherproof, penetrating urethane adhesive applied between the hanger and the rock. We will see if the urethane discourages the hanger bracket from being spun. The urethane also has the possibility of penetrating into and bonding with the sandstone directly next to the hanger, thereby giving it better structural integrity and resistance to pulverizing."

The urethane is easier to use and apply than epoxy. Unlike epoxy, it also has some resiliancy and therefore is not a brittle as epoxy in cold temps.

Rick

Post by **Mazz** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:23 pm

Sorry. Short attention span. I didn't read the whole thing.