RRC Archives

Re: the gorge proper - I think that pretty much all the obvious lines under mid 5.11 or so at or near an established crag have been done. There are harder and/or bolder lines out there as well as under 5.11 lines at some obscure areas maybe. Lots of FA's still in the southern region, and if I was looking for moderate FA's I would walk the murry property with a drill for anchors, a rack, and a rope.

Actual quotes from Porter Jarrard about the Red:

"There is at least a thousand miles of cliff or more. It's just a matter of finding a good section, a bunch of routes... a concentration of routes near a road... don't need to walk too far."

More from the video "The South's Steepest":

"It's just a matter of walkin' cliffs... you could keep walkin' and findin' stuff that's good to climb. It's just a matter of when do you stop lookin' and when ya start drillin' and puttin' up routes. It's hard to say, ya know, you could just spend all your time just walkin' cliffs and you could never walk all the cliffs around Red River."

Well said. I think he would know.

I've got to disagree Wes. I think that there are stil hundreds of two to three star trad lines left in the red- and some of them ARE at established areas. Think about lines that recently went up-Thunder chicken, which is at the most popular trad crag in the red, and nobody bothered to do it until Aaron Boyles. I just think people are not interested in puting up new lines, particularly when so much development is happening in the southern regions.

But you are right- only I think 'obvious lines' would then have to mean the ones that smack you in the forehead when you are walking 100 feet away from the cliff. Walk closer, or around the side, or off to a nearby cliff, and there are good lines to be had.

Actually, I think there are only handful of people interested in putting up new lines in the gorge proper. I think Danny, Hass,Jesse, and Loren are the only ones. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree with Huggybone too, I've been all over the Red and seen that there are definitely plenty of quality routes left to do at established areas. I'm often surprised by this when we visit popular cliffs at the Red. The Red is so scattered that it's easy for this to happen. I know that many times we have passed quality routes by just to see what was around the next corner and they were forgotten until later.

Everytime I go out I literally find a new line that has not been done. Sure many are not worth doing, but some are hard, thin cracks that would not require much cleaning. The Southern Region is littered with them, Muir has quite a few, and the gorge proper has more then the other two combined. It's just a matter of where you go and what you personally look at as "climbable". More obscure areas like Tarr Ridge, the Dome, Lost Ridge, etc. all have cracks that have not been done that are fairly obvious. But so does the more popular areas. Phantasia Wall got a new 5.8 trad line last year and that is one of the most popular areas out there. If you're interested in telling people about them though, stick to the Southern Region or Muir. Like J-Rock said, the future of new routes is on private land.

haas, How do you know they haven't been done? Because they aren't in the guide book?

And there is a ton of sport route potential out there, even at established crags, but the FS says you can't bolt them.

You can tell after you've climbed a route if its an FA. But then again, maybe you just can't tell if a route has been climbed or not. I know I've done stuff where such obvious foot holds were crumbling under my feet that there was no way anyone had climbed the route. But then some crack that tops out...who knows?

I know of a very large area of the Red River drainage that is mostly untapped in its climbing potential. Easy access, a mix of FS and private and large amounts of good rock. And that's where I've been spending most of my time exploring the last few years after I stopped looking for boulders. I know of over 100 lines that could go up without needing anchors and in most cases could even be easily top roped. And I'm talking about high quality routes. My main reasons for not having climbed more of them is lack of time and willing partners. I've done about as much as I can do roped soloing.

haas, How do you know they haven't been done? Because they aren't in the guide book?

1. Crumblies. If crumblies are everywhere, it probobly has not been climbed
2. Lack of Anchorn (well, I guess they could have downclimbed, but that is usually a last resort)
3. Most routes not in guidebooks eventually become known, word eventually gets out. It may take a few years, but word evetually gets out.

Particularly if the route is good.