RRC Archives

john brings up a really good point. at the Devil's Lake where i climb in Wisconsin a large majority of the routes are TR/free solo only b/c bolting isn't allowed and most lines aren't trad-able. i would definately count a TR send on one of these a Redpoint/send

ask yourself why you are TR'ing the climb...if it is because you are scared of the lead, then you are bringing the route down to your abilities, not rising to the occasion. nothing wrong with being scared, just be honest why you would settle for TR'ing when there is a chance to lead something.

you are onto something alan evil. real 5.12 climbers would never stoop to TR'ing a climb and calling it a real ascent. it seems so artificial when the rope is already hanging.

Most people TR when they don't have the guns, the gonads, or the guts to take the sharp end.

We used to go to Devil's Lake about 4 or 5 times a year and each day I would lead a few routes and toprope several others. It was funny because whenever I led a route people would make comments about it like I was crazy or they would often explain that most people there don't lead the routes, that the rock is too slick, etc. I always thought that the rock was perfect and that the gear was solid. In fact the rock quality is soo good that we would often free solo many of the easier climbs. Anyway, one time, as I was preparing to lead a route, I heard a father tell his children, "Now there is a real climber doing it the old fashioned way!".

Yasmeen wrote:Do you mean "Leavittation" ( http://flash.lakeheadu.ca/~lurock/crack.html )?

those are some of the most f'ed up pictures i've ever seen. i'm kind of disturbed..

Wes wrote:It is a personal thing. For me, it doesn't really count for much more then some training these days. But, everyone should decide for themselves. And, it can change over time.

that's about all you need to know right there. it counts if it counts to you. screw everyone/thing else if they don't like it. they aren't you..

paul, apparently the masses don't agree with you, or they wouldn't be voting. seems they all have an opinion....

doesn't mean they aren't wrong

maybe they vote just to piss people off.

I top-rope if I want to run laps, something is just way too hard for me, or I am swapping leads on a multi-pitch route. The only count that I keep track of anymore is how many pitches I do per day. I include top ropes in that count without any reservation, if anyone asks for details I give them. So it counts to me, but like most climbers, I don't feel that I've gotten all I can out of a climb until it's benn lead. That being said, if someone comes up and they are excited about TR'ing something I'll be more than happy to give them kudos and would never try to belittle their accomplishment by pointing out that it's only a TR.

i think top roping "counts"... but like others, i'm just not sure of what your definition of "counts" is. If you think the highest form of climbing is "leading, clipping the bolts, not stick clipping the first, after someone has brushed off all the tick marks" then no way does top roping "count". However, if you are think bouldering is more "pure" because it takes away the need for pesky protection and you can focus completely on just the movement of climbing without much fear, then top roping, which is essentially the same thing (but safer) might "count". If you are a second on multi-pitch routes, then top roping for SURE counts. If you are a trad climber who only does backwoods FAs without cams, sticky rubber shoes, or chalk, then you probably think top roping and sport cragging are virtually the same.

don't let others determine for you the definition of "counts". figure it out for yourself and enjoy the climb. don't worry about somebody else who makes themself miserable because they are aspiring to make other people value them based on someone elses definition of climbing.