Yep, that is the dark city. Looks chossy and crappy, but is actually a pretty fun route. It does have pretty good gear, but it is a pain to place and engineer the runners. With a few more well placed bolts, it would be a much easier route to lead. Personally, I don't have issues with bolted cracks, and have climbed several that were quite good (wild iris/sinks and potrero, amoung others).
Wes
Mixed route at Torrent
I think I'm still a traddy at heart, but I admit that I have probably placed a few bolts in places where there could probably be decent gear (particularly in pockets, seams, small horizontals, etc). I've also noticed that many of our mixed routes do not receive the traffic that they deserve. I often wonder if they would receive more ascents if there were more bolts on them...
Truth is, if we wanted to be really hardcore about it, then many of the classic pocketed sport climbs at Red River could probably be protected with tri-cams in pockets, tcus in horizontals, small wires in seams, etc. I've seen "The Return of Chris Snyder" led this way, as well as many other routes. Many would have some exciting run outs and a few R-rated sections. If this were standard practice at the Red then there would not be so many safe and enjoyable sport routes. Besides we don't exactly have the most solid sandstone around and it's not too easy to place gear on strenuous and pumpy overhangs while trying to "beat the clock".
However, I definitely could not do it next to an obviously bomber crack. On the other hand, if the gear isn't bomber then I could probably justify the placement of a bolt. Everybody has their own style and ethics and are free to choose their own path. If future climbers don't want to clip the bolts then they can choose to ignore them and lead the route in their own style.
Truth is, if we wanted to be really hardcore about it, then many of the classic pocketed sport climbs at Red River could probably be protected with tri-cams in pockets, tcus in horizontals, small wires in seams, etc. I've seen "The Return of Chris Snyder" led this way, as well as many other routes. Many would have some exciting run outs and a few R-rated sections. If this were standard practice at the Red then there would not be so many safe and enjoyable sport routes. Besides we don't exactly have the most solid sandstone around and it's not too easy to place gear on strenuous and pumpy overhangs while trying to "beat the clock".
However, I definitely could not do it next to an obviously bomber crack. On the other hand, if the gear isn't bomber then I could probably justify the placement of a bolt. Everybody has their own style and ethics and are free to choose their own path. If future climbers don't want to clip the bolts then they can choose to ignore them and lead the route in their own style.
Last edited by J-Rock on Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Those iron spikes you use have shortened the life expectancy of the Totem Pole by 50,000 years."
--A Navaho elder
--A Navaho elder
Gotcha, I know the route then. Yeah it did look like a pile. Glad to hear it's better. I remember the start looking runout but the gear looked fine higher up... that was of course me looking from the ground.
I know the cracks you are talking about Wes at Wild Iris/Sinks and I thought the bolts should not have been added personally, but hey what do I know. It is a very slippery slope indeed
I know the cracks you are talking about Wes at Wild Iris/Sinks and I thought the bolts should not have been added personally, but hey what do I know. It is a very slippery slope indeed
The notion that routes should be made as easy as possible is absurd. Why dumb it down for the common denominator? Are there not enough bolted lines at torrent already?
mixed faces are one thing. but, this thing is a big right facing corner with a crack, right?
However, Sunshine did the FA, the route is on private property and I respect sunshine's decision to do what he wants with his route. I know he just wants more people to get on it. So in an effort to dissuade yall from bolting this crack, I am willing to take action. Leave it the way it is and I will promise to 'trad' dark city twice a year for the next 5 years. not only will I climb it, but I will spray copiously about it when I do. I will post photos, stroke egos and spread the glory of this climb throughout the known world. or at least throughout torrent falls. deal?
mixed faces are one thing. but, this thing is a big right facing corner with a crack, right?
However, Sunshine did the FA, the route is on private property and I respect sunshine's decision to do what he wants with his route. I know he just wants more people to get on it. So in an effort to dissuade yall from bolting this crack, I am willing to take action. Leave it the way it is and I will promise to 'trad' dark city twice a year for the next 5 years. not only will I climb it, but I will spray copiously about it when I do. I will post photos, stroke egos and spread the glory of this climb throughout the known world. or at least throughout torrent falls. deal?
weather is occurring.
The name of the route speaks for itself. DARK CITY. Just like the the "reality" in the movie, it is not what it appears. If bolts were to appear, for some, it would just be a different reality. After some of the stuff I read here, all that seems to be necessary is just believe it and it is real.
So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins,
For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing-- Zep
For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing-- Zep
I think I have heard some sort of a quote like that before....but at the present...it escapes me....Sunshine wrote:The name of the route speaks for itself. DARK CITY. Just like the the "reality" in the movie, it is not what it appears. If bolts were to appear, for some, it would just be a different reality. After some of the stuff I read here, all that seems to be necessary is just believe it and it is real.
"how ironic....now he's blind after a life of enjoying being able to see."~Homer