Page 2 of 6
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:55 am
by 512OW
Horatio Felacio wrote:.12- isn't that hard for a pinkpoint to be necessary. haven't you ever been climbing with someone and they get the lead of a "moderate" crack. they lower off and instead of wasting time pulling gear for your "clean" ascent, you just tell them to leave it in place, so you can do it and move on to something else? i've done that. i guess you and wes can tell me the ol' crap about "pre-placed has no place", but i would bet anything i could've done it because it wasn't that hard to begin with. i don't see the pre-placed thing to be much of an issue unless part of the difficulty of the route is placing the gear.
from the looks of human chew toy, i would guess that is why they did it. probably just all those dudes taking turns on it one day and finally one of them did it. i just don't remember the chew toy looking that hard to protect.
Thats my point.....12- isn't that hard that a pinkpoint is "necessary". So why be lazy and not redpoint it? Lots of 5.12 roof cracks have only been done by pinkpointing.
Thats whats bugging me. It just seems that ethics go completely out the window and people just "forget" to mention the style in which it was climbed.
I dont' have a problem with the way Chew Toy was done....in fact I applaud it. Jeff, when reporting it, called the FA a pinkpoint. I think that is classy.
On another note, I don't understand stick clipping. People will go do boulder problems, and then stick clip the first bolt of everything....I don't get it.
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:06 am
by Wes
512OW wrote:
On another note, I don't understand stick clipping. People will go do boulder problems, and then stick clip the first bolt of everything....I don't get it.
You don't get it because you are dumb. Bouldering is bouldering. Sport climbing is sport climbing. Tard climbing is tard climbing. Life is simple when you just let things be what they are.
Wes
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:25 am
by haas
I just typed a big ass reply and my internet crashed. Damn it!
I don't get stick clipping either. I can think of a ton of routes, especially out in Rumney where the crux is below the first bolt. Now isn't that the same as TRing the route if you did the crux on toprope? I guess I can see it if there's a sketchy landing below and you didn't bring pads, but it seems like FAers are placing the first bolt huber high because the expect everyone to stick clip like it's the norm. Ethics are drifting away
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:29 am
by Wes
There is no such thing as climbing ethics. Only climbing style, so there was never any ethics to drift away.
Wes
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:39 am
by captain static
I agree with you Wes, PP vs. RP is an issue of style, ethics is for serious sh*t like bolting a crack or chipping & gluing. As far as the style issue in question here, the ultimate style is an onsight.
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:40 am
by haas
what do you call chipping? a bad form of style!? Please...
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:41 am
by captain static
I agree with you Wes, PP vs. RP is an issue of style, ethics is for serious sh*t like bolting a crack or chipping & gluing. As far as the style issue in question here, the ultimate style is an onsight. With only one shot at that, the next best thing is a redpoint.
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:43 am
by Wes
haas wrote:what do you call chipping? a bad form of style!? Please...
Yep, just like the pin scars that those so-called ethical purist old school people left all ass over the place. Bad style is still bad style.
Wes
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:46 am
by haas
touche, Wes, touche. I'll give you that, as Serenity Crack looks ass ugly, but is a great climb and wouldn't be possible without pin scars (at least at it's current grade). I still believe there's a difference, like glueing holds, bolting cracks, etc.
Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:51 am
by Wes
No doubt there is a difference, but from an objective point of view the results are still pretty much the same.
That is why I accept styles of climbing for what they are. Personally, I think the grit people and the single push alpine people are pretty bold and their style is very cool. But that doesn't take anything away from the person that stick clips the first bolt of some 5.9+ in the red.
Wes