RRC Archives

Tape!!...sorry that's a point of aid, can't count it. Just like the knee bars on Reliquary!...

Gung Ho felt like it had a more challenging finish and I fell there, yet Tissue Tiger didn't feel as difficult.

Gung ho is much more sustained, but I always thought it 12a. You used to get a shake before the crux, but with the hold broke it does make it harder. I think the crux on tissue is much harder than the crux on GH.

Ah, the vagueries of ratings. I guess these 5.12 and up ratings are divided into so many parts because at that level of climbing there's a noticeable difference between "c" and "d." Down at my lame ass level the differences are much more vague. But you've still got these arguments.

5.11d should be, in my opinion, as different from 5.12 as it is from 5.11c. Otherwise there's no reason for the subratings. Just like you don't have grades on a bottle that measure out cups and then have four divisions in between clustered down close to each cup with a gap before the next cup above. That's just silly. But face it, if you want a 5.11d/5.12 rating you want a 5.119. So ultimately you could start rating routes as 5.11672 because it's a little harder than 5.11c but not quite a 5.11d...

The way I look at it there are two ways to rate a route: Harder than you can do and not too hard for you. That's it. You CAN'T get specific about rating climbs because we're all built differently and what is a breeze for a compact, strong, short woman might be really tough for a long tall man and vice versa.

What is even funnier is how the ratings differ between climbing areas. I remember a recent post about how 5.11's near Moab were a breeze compared with RRG 5.10's. So in my humble opinion it's too subjective for "abcd" ratings below 5.12 but it's ok above 5.12 because there are so few people that can climb 5.14c++X. All fifty of you can argue those ratings.

It's fair, like progressive taxation... oops! Wrong section.

Gung Ho and Tissue Tiger are right next to each other. I think it makes sense that we could get a consenses on the difficulty of the climbs compared to each other. It is not apples and oranges. It is not even apples from the RRG and Moab. It is two similar climbs, with similar angles, lengths, and holds.

Gung Ho is the best route on the wall...nuff said!