Bolts at Long Wall

Post by **tsparks** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:58 pm

Honestly, for me it is not an issue of not wanting to contribute to the safety of the climbing community as much as it is the cost of replacing ALL the bolts and anchors on ALL of the routes. In a perfect world all climbers would contribute to the cost of such iniciatives and therefore no one person would have to incur the total cost. Unfortunately, as you know, that isn't the case, so I was offering to take on at least part of the cost of rehabilitating the routes that I was interested in.

You have to admit, that is better than nothing.

Post by **t bone** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:03 pm

Those routes have 3/8 inch bolts on them. I have done all those routes. There are better bolts like lurkist said. They need an upgrade like many other routes in the red.

Post by **rmcfall** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:09 pm

Nice try, Hugh.

Post by **captain static** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:37 pm

Just a little food for thought from the American Safe Climbing Association website:

Bolts used for outdoor rock climbing in the U.S. have historically not been regulated or certified in any way. Historical practice is to use bolts which are nowhere near any "reasonable" level of safety compared to the standards of modern society, and even the bolts used now to establish new routes and replace old bolts are not certified or regulated in any way. Limitations due to ease and speed and type mean that even many bolts used by the ASCA are nowhere near what would be considered acceptable safety margins in other walks of life such as the modern construction industry. ... Old deteriorating bolts are potential death traps even for experienced climbers, ... No bolt is ever guaranteed, and trusting a bolt with your life is always a gamble.

Post by **the lurkist** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:29 pm

tsparks, thanks for your generous offer. You are right- it is better than nothing. I guess I should take you up on your offer to buy a routes worth of bolts and anchor. That being decided, how are these bolts goiing to get into the rock to make your climbing experience a safe and enjoyable one? I guess someone who knew what they were doing could do that for you. I could- my time is worth $40/ hour. It would take me a few hours to do it. I'll do it for $100. How does that sound?
You have to admit, it is better than nothing.
My guess is that you will take nothing.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:37 pm

Lurkist, you're not really suggesting that inexperienced people take up bolt replacement, are you?

I see the point you are trying to make, believe me I do - and it's a good one - but most climbers would NOT offer to pay for bolts so I think you are being a little harsh with tsparks.

Post by **Johnny** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:01 pm

BTW, all the bolts on Trinket Man and Game Boy are Rawl 1/2" x 3 3/4". I really thought Nick used the same. He used Metolius rap anchors which accomodate at 1/2" bolt. If it was really 1/4" they would look ridiculously tiny by today's standards.

Post by **captain static** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:35 pm

This thread has me thinking about database management. An extension of our developing electronic guidebook(s) to inventory bolt anchors, i.e. no. of bolts per route, type of bolts/anchors, date installed, noted problems. This information would be used to budget for and prioritize replacement. Isn't this why we have a RRGCC & CAC to manage such things. But maybee we could have something like a route auction to raise funds for bolt replacement?

Post by **the lurkist** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:42 pm

Yes, Sandy, perhaps I am being a little harsh. tsparks did offer to help.
The point I would make is that tsparks is interested in someone facilitating his/her experience. Must be nice. If it isn't what tsparks is interested in climbing then it isn't his problem. I realize tspark's time is more important than Terry's, or Bob's, or mine, or anyone else who sees that this route is a death trap and the lay climbing public needs to be protected from themselves (because everyone knows all bolts are safe and ready for the whip).
tsparks- you noticed the problem. You want to bring these routes up to safe standard so you can enjoy them- it is your responsibilty to fix them. There aren't any park bolt patrols. Your taxes don't pay for bolt maintenance infrastructure. It is everyones responsibility to make it a safe experience.
If you drive by an obvious road hazard that almost took you out and you know it will get someone else soon, do you keep on driving or stop and get it out of the way?

Post by **tsparks** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:59 pm

Lukist, I think you must have missed the point of my original post. I simply asked about the bolts on those routes to see if they were "safe". How is that any different than someone else asking for beta on a route? Then when you decided to ask me about replacing the bolts if I they needed to be and I actually offered to pay for some of them. Does that sound like I'm asking someone else to facilitate my climbing experience? I don't think so. Hell, I could have just said "screw it, I'll go climb somewhere else", but I didn't.

Why get on your high horse and preach at me about how long it takes to put up a route or how much it costs? Am I somehow the only person that climbs routes in the Gorge that doesn't also put them up? No. All of us take advantage of others generosity.