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they were all on me in the other thread and now no one wants to argue against me.

I don't really want to flame you personally, but here is my take on dirtbagging...

If you want to live on a pack of Raman and a 40 of king cobra a day, that is totally cool. Dumperster diving? Sure, it only affects you. But, when you cross the line to stealing - food, camping, gear, etc, then you are in the wrong. I know there is this so called tradition of dirt bagging and all. But, I have been on the road, and I have meet some of these people. And, while they may be climbers, there are no more then common scum as people. They scam food, steal shit, and mooch off of anyone they can. Friends, parents, other climbers. Whoever. They pretty much suck, and care nothing about anyone.

So, live cheap and climb hard, but don't cross that line, and you will be all good.

Wes

i don't steal from people that is wrong agreed.
i think everything i do affects me and not really anyone else.

Dude, stealing camping is stealing. Stealing food from the store is stealing. Stealing food and gear from the lock boxes at camp 4 is stealing. And that shit happens all the time there. Man, I know people that work hard, save money, and take long trips. They might dirtbag in some ways, but they don't scam and steal. I meet this guy in WY last year, snuck into a breakfast that people paid for, then bitched about the portions. That is wrong. But, he is just a dirtbag climber right?

And things you do affect others. If you get caught Out of Bounds camping, then it just makes it that much harder for the next guy. Or for people that are trying to do the right thing, when they get hassled for just being a climber.

Wes

stealing food? no taking food that is going to be thrown away. how is that wrong? out of bounds camping? not really gonna go into that one. i NEVER said anything about stealing gear from lock boxes. i said something about knowing how to borrow gear that you don't have or that is what i meant at least.

i put the thing about my actions in the wrong way. i know my actions affect people but not in a bad way. rangers really don't care about climbers. they know enough to leave them alone.

I thought shoplifting from the store was another time honered dirtbagging tradition? Rangers do care, and they cut climbers way more slack then they deserve, but they will also take you to the "John Muir Inn" if you do enough dumb stuff.

Do what you want, just understand the issues of what you are doing. And read through supertopo.com, and talk with those people. They can give you the inside beta you need. And maybe some advice.

Wes

not with me shop lifting isn't cool. i use my own judgement not some "tradition" . climbers get slack because they have a real passion unlike tourons on vacation. this really can't be argued because we all have strong immovable opinions.

climbers have a somewhat respectable reputation in ynp because of a ranger (lincoln) that not only climbs, but also puts on slide shows, talks, seminars over at the lodge, hands out free coffee every sunday, and talks about current issues regarding climbers and the park service....not dirty bums.

Aaron has read too many John Long books.

aaron wrote:climbers get slack because they have a real passion unlike tourons on vacation.

kayakers, hikers, photographers and people interested in history, geology, or just the beauty of nature all have "real" passion.

those tourons out there that you assume are just out strolling around probably have an even greater appreciation for the park than you have.

just because you choose the useless (yet enjoyable) pastime of climbing does not make you any better and any more passionate than anyone else.

respect others and they will respect you...