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I'm not asking for a flame war, I've been part in enough of those.
It's enough to make me sick. Arguing about somones belife is like dissing there Mom. It dose not matter if there wrong they won't listen.

I don't understand why Christains have to go to church anyway...church people are nothing but arguing, gossipy freaks who have nothing better to do on the weekend...I have something better to do on the weekend...CLIMB...and if I can't climb that weekend...I can still find something better to do.

"arguing, gossipy freaks who have nothing better to do on wekeends"...

many say the same thing about climbers! lmao

but thanks for that unbiased opinion longlegs...

longlegsrule wrote:I don't understand why Christains have to go to church anyway...church people are nothing but arguing, gossipy freaks who have nothing better to do on the weekend...I have something better to do on the weekend...CLIMB...and if I can't climb that weekend...I can still find something better to do.

.......and suddenly the "tolerant" became intolerant.

A wise man said that the first person in a discussion or arguement who resorts to namecalling is clearly losing the arguement. LOGOS RULES!!!!

jabba, it is funny how these things get off course so fast..you were asking how others dealt with it, and instead we get into an issue of beating up the religous...

so I'll try to get back on topic..

when I first started climbing, I had the same issues. Except for me, I was always a bit dis-satisfied with organized church anyway. I felt there was something to Christianity, but was always coming up feeling empty when I left church. So instead of just dissing the church as a bunch of loonies or hypocrites, I decided to focus my energy on finding out what I could about the Christian version of God..

long story short...(the author CS Lewis was my guide)..I came to realize that people going to church are no better (or worse) than me...by knocking them just to make myself feel better (or to justify my actions), I was falling into the same trap that judgemental people were falling into. I told myself, until I could have the same love and feelings for church goers and non church goers alike, then I was failing in the great commission...to love all like Christ did. So being on either side of the fence is not an admirable position. Sitting in church looking down on those not going, or not going to church and bashing those who do go...it all ends in the same conclusion..that I am failing to exemplify true love.

my only suggestion to you..don't drop the ball. if you just discard all your upbringing as rubbish, without sifting thru it for the nuggets of truth, then you are doing yourself a disservice. Likewise, by sitting in church or sitting at the crag on Sundays...neither option is a more "holy" or "spiritual" activity. Man made rules have tarnished our thinking on this one.

Only you can ultimately decide what feels right...just don't buy into the PR announcments that both sides will throw your way.

btw, I consider myself a believer, but I doubt I go to church more than 5-6 times a year. I climb around 40 weekends a year, plus all of my vacation days...

I don't think I really understand your dilemma and why are you calling people hypocrites. You ask for their help yet say this?

I quit church to spend more time outdoors and with people I appreciated more who weren't Christians. Plus, I totally agree with dhoyne, which is a rare occasion. My beliefs changed drastically too, which frees my mind from believing others are hypocrits

Longlegs: That's just ignorant.

pigsteak wrote:..
long story short...(the author CS Lewis was my guide)..I came to realize that people going to church are no better (or worse) than me...by knocking them just to make myself feel better (or to justify my actions), I was falling into the same trap that judgemental people were falling into.

EXCELLENT point Piggie! C.S. Lewis is awesome (Till We Have Faces is my all-time favorite novel - it's not Christian lit though).

Pigsteak you are going to make people uncomfortable sitting on the fence.

I figure you can be close to your god in a church, you can be close to your god in the woods, you can be close to your god wherever you are - because it depends on how you truly feel and believe inside. If you want to be in a church on Sunday, then you'll be there. If you want to be on a rock on Sunday, you'll be there....you can "pray" in both places. The choice is very personal and very individual.

I was baptized and raised Russian Orthodox, but tried my best to explain rationally to my family how my personal beliefs developed and changed as I got older...some of them understand, some of them don't and they disagree completely, BUT they all respect me for standing up for my beliefs and making a choice for myself.

Something I think that is important - is that even if you are a firm believer in some religion, I don't think you should ever go to a church in a forced situation. A lot of religions seem to be based on guilt and I really believe it should be more of a celebration of faith, rather than a mourning of one's faith.

In the end - we're all full of crap, right? But, God gave man the power of choice.....use it.