Poverty and Rock Climbing

[Nick]

Good points! I know plenty of people who make far less than me who lease $50,000 pick up trucks just to commute in. The they always say "You never know when yur gonna need to tow sumthin'".

The other day I was reading an article about Ky https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... d-gut-fish and the following quote by the author struck me as funny.

Quote: Raghu started traveling back and forth to Kentucky, where, he tells me, “I’ve become quite close with the local people.” He came to admire their ability to “live off the land” while “somewhat living in squalor,” he says.

I have to say that parts of Arkansas near horseshoe canyon make Slade look like Mar-a-lago in comparison. Ironically the most successful business owner in the region is an immigrant, go figure.

[Ascentionist]

I don't know anyone who lives off the land. People hunt, but I wouldn't classify that as living off the land considering most of them are fat slobs who ate at Hardee's before going out, rode a four-wheeler into the woods, struggled to haul their fat asses into a tree stand, shot the deer with a high powered rifle and then hauled the carcass (their own and the deer) out of the woods on said four-wheeler. Not exactly the romantic notion of a frontiersman. Hardly anyone around here even grows a garden anymore. We keep chickens but we started that when we lived in the suburbs of Denver and just brought them back with us when we moved.

I agree with the squalor though. Lots of squalor. We are squalor-ific.

[Sarahbelzile]

I think this is an important topic, even if the author was generalizing. The disparity between the reality that climbers inhabit and the reality that the locals inhabit does exist. It's socio-economic for starters, and it's deeper than that... it's lifestyle and access to privilege. And for me, personally, I'm interested in beginning to bridge this gap. I've been coming to the Red for seven years now. I spent a month at Miguel's last fall and I am at the beginning of a seven month stay now (although I may end up staying somewhere other than Miguels). One thing that I have heard numerous times this spring is how the locals feel unwelcome at Miguel's. They think that climbers are given preference in how they are served and treated. I get it. If I were living in a trailer (not by choice) and was missing my front teeth, had never left Kentucky, and hadn't finished high school, I would feel unwelcome, too,l even if I was treated with the utmost respect. Miguel's is a climber hangout, and in order to feel a sense of "belonging" there, it sure helps to be a climber, to wear the clothes, to have the gear, and to be able to speak the language of climbing. So what do we do? For weekenders, I'm not sure. I know, when you come down for just a couple of days, you're just there to climb. But what about those of us who are in the Red for a longer time? What can we do to reach out, to make connections and to seek to understand the existing local community? It seems to me that making thoughtful and compassionate connections with real humans who live in and around the gorge could make a big difference to the overall sustainability of climbing in the RRG. I plan to start with volunteering with an organization like this on one of my rest days in the next week or so, as a way to start learning more about the local community and what is already happening. http://www.beattyvillehousingky.org/about Please let me know if you are interested in joining me in this investigation, I'd love to connect with like minds on this one.

[DrRockso]

If I were living in a trailer (not by choice) and was missing my front teeth, had never left Kentucky, and hadn't finished high school, I would feel unwelcome, too,l even if I was treated with the utmost respect.

You can start by not being such a judgmental bitch. Sorry I'm not sorry, but you come off worse than the author.

[Ascentionist]

I think getting involved in local organizations is a great first step. I also think that climbers need to get involved in local elected and appointed boards. Obviously as non-residents visitors can't be members, but going to fiscal court and city council meetings, tourism meetings, park and rec meetings, etc, etc is a great way to start showing decision makers that climbers care and have something to offer. Paul Vidal is a great example of this and I can't commend him enough for going straight to the source when it comes to local issues, getting involved, and trying to make a difference beyond the crag. I would caution patience and prudence and not go in guns a-blazin', but I think with a measured approach being active in local decision making processes can begin to change perceptions for the better.

Local communities need help with a lot of things. It's more than just socio-economic issues. Local governments don't have a lot of technical expertise or the resources to hire engineers, planners, etc. If you are a professional with an in-demand service then volunteering in a professional capacity might be more of a good will gesture than you would imagine. What I see most of the time is that when someone comes up with a great idea to improve the quality of life of one of the Gorge communities the concept gets stalled out long before implementation because there is a knowledge gap. And then there is always the shortfall of funds to contend with. Most cities and counties in the region struggle to maintain what they have, much less add parks, libraries, schools, etc. And with a general population decline in some locales it gets even harder to bring in the revenue just to keep the lights on, much less realize a vision for a better community.

And to piggyback off of what Rockso said: don't bring up stereotypes when you talk to natives. I'm a local by birth and by choice. My experience is not that most people live in trailers and have no front teeth. The majority are hard working for-all-intents-and-purposes suburbanites who just want to live their lives in peace. A lot of them make modest to decent livings and choose to stay in Eastern Kentucky because they love it, not because they're too poor to escape. A lot of us either have escaped and returned or never had the desire to leave in the first place. And we're not poor and unhealthy and living in squalor. That's the story that never gets told.

[Sarahbelzile]

OK, noted, friends... yes, those were all generalizations and I can see how they would strike a nerve, thanks for the feedback, even if it's hard to hear. I know that when talking about this subject, it's a tender thing, lots of strong feelings, including mine. I did go ahead and call the Beattyville Housing and Development office, I have a meeting with them on May 4th, just to have a conversation about what they do. I am about to figure out how to respond to the messages I got as well. More soon!

[Ascentionist]

Please don't take my comments as critical; simply informative. I typically only take offense to the stereotypes when committed by my fellow Eastern Kentuckians.

[whatahutch]

It's a preachy opinion piece against generalizations and assumptions that makes a huge assumption about poor rural people. I did not grow up in an Eastern Kentucky hollow, but I did grow up in a rural Kentucky hollow. Not everybody from a economically poor area wants to leave that area.

"Unlike many of the people who call Slade home, the climbers who visit have the option and the funds to leave when they want to," the author of the opinion piece stated. It is a big assumption to make, and then to base a flawed argument around.

Take for instance my brother. He now lives on a small farm next to possible meth dealers (he hasn't asked why they need so many visitors to their home in the middle of the night, but he has made the logical conclusion that constant visitors throughout the night means stimulants are probably involved, and it's probably not ritalin their slangin'), but he lived in a trailer for five years before he bought his little farm.

He lived in a trailer, with the vomiting guts of a junk shed spilling out beside the trailer, because he bought the trailer for $1,000. The trailer was on a lot on the backside of a farm. The lot fee was $75 dollars a month. He paid cash for the trailer. He had no house payment.

Take that as a living space, and compare it to the price of a home in an affluent neighborhood in Lexington, Louisville, or an affluent part of Michigan. Maybe the redneck that lives in the trailer by choice is on to something. A debt load of $375,000 or more for a home in rich white America seems foolish compared to living in poor white redneck America with $0 in debt.

Now, my brother traveled/travels to go to work, though. Everyday, he traveled/travels an hour and 15 minutes, one way, to go to work in Louisville. He sacrificed his time, in place of his money, to live where he so desires. He no longer lives in the trailer, but he still lives in rural poor Kentucky. He now owns 25 acres with a four bedroom house, a couple barns, and a garage and pays about $600 a month for it. This is just my own assumption, but you won't get that type of deal anywhere near a suburban neighborhood.

When I went to college at Eastern Kentucky University, my boss drove everyday from Pebworth, Ky. Pebworth is in Owsley County, a neighboring county to Lee and the Motherlode, one of the poorest counties in the nation, and often the top three poorest in Kentucky. His wife was a school teacher, and my boss worked at EKU as a grounds foreman. He drove an hour and 15 minutes one way, each work day, until he retired because he didn't want to move away from the hollow. He had the money to do it too, because compared to some of his neighbors and friends from his home, he was an affluent man. He had money, and he still stayed in the hollow.

The article is junk. FAKE NEWS, people. FAKE NEWS, because it is all based on flawed opinion. A better way to write something like that is to not make assumptions and to go ask real questions and get real answers.

[whatahutch]

Also, a good comparison chart might be the investment amount it takes to make a high volume meth lab and compare that to the cost it takes to get into climbing. I bet the return for the investment is greater to the redneck meth dealer than it is to the new climber. I know. I know. The fun you get from climbing is a worthy return, but a toothless, glass-pipe-sucking redneck might disagree with that statement too.

[Ascentionist]

Excellent comments!

Like I said in an earlier post: I'm a native by birth and by choice. I'm what you call an Appalachian boomeranger. I move away--I move back. I move away--I move back. Hopefully this time its to stay, or the next time is to stay away because I don't think my wife would put up with another move BACK to Kentucky. She is NOT a native by birth or choice.

But I had a job in Golden, Colorado working for county government. We liked living in Colorado. But I like living where I do now just outside the RRG. My mortgage is $400 a month and I am fifteen minutes from world class climbing, hiking, paddling and eventually mountain biking. Much like WAH said I could live in Lexington near where I work, but I would put most of my income into a space to sleep and hate my life. I also currently live next to a meth house (no one has so many different friends that only stay five minutes) which has expanded to include prostitution (alas, it is a cousin who is providing the services) so there are tradeoffs.

But I live within walking distance to both of my 80-something grandmothers and when the lab is down for cleaning its a pretty peaceful place to be. I can walk out my backdoor into the woods or drag my kayak up to the family pond and paddle. I hesitate to say this, but I make almost $50k a year. I don't HAVE to stay where I am. And I am not part of the local wealthy elite. I am maybe average of income or maybe slightly above in the circles I inhabit.

But my story never gets told. The state and national news like to talk about all of the bad things about Appalachia and there is a blind spot when it comes to the perks.

Shameless plug: I need help building mountain bike trails. I have fifty miles planned.