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I'm not a lawyer, but I bet I could win that case.

The owner likely is keeping an electronic log from which it can be shown that no donation is required to enter Roadside. I don't think any lawyer could win this case. The financial structure here and access to the property for recreation activities look more like Muir Valley than Six Flags.

I hope people don't misunderstand me here. I am not promoting or denigrating this structure for recreational land access. I can state flatly that the current situation is far better than outright closure. It may also make Roadside less popular, which was the original problem from the point of view of the land owner(s).

BTW: I erased my first comment because I don't know shit. My second comment is general and not specific to this case. I still am ignorant about what is going on, but it is a general comment that I think I can make by just imagining I am the land owner.

Caribe, I believe your only problem was writing above a 7th grade reading level. They lost you at x

Whenever you travel you are supposed to appreciate the local culture.

Hello KD,

We have owned the GFNP for over 10 years and have allowed tens of thousands of people access to the place. If you include the parking area on the West side of the road which includes access to the Zoo, it runs into the hundreds of thousands. Of course there are always a few assholes such as yourself that are intent on getting the place closed. Fortunately, they are in the minority.

John Haight

I had a long conversation with John today. I 100% see his side of it. Owning and managing Roadside is a nightmare...BUT he's doing it for a climbing community that has trouble policing itself, that includes individuals who have no respect, no manners, and no business being out in public unsupervised.

John does not hate dogs. He does not hate people. He obviously does not hate climbers. But in order to protect and preserve Roadside for future generations a certain level of "management" is a necessary evil. He can't afford (nor can the community afford for him) to let the unique chaos that Roadside attracts to reign. For whatever reason climbing at Roadside brings out the crazy in some people. Maybe they drink from the waterfall that flows off the lip that originates in the cow pasture on top. Who knows?

I said all of that to say: don't put up with crap at the crag. Call people out (tactfully and not to incite violence) but make it known that you don't appreciate asinine and juvenile behavior. If you can't behave as an adult...don't come to the Red. You're not welcome anywhere here.

And leave your damn dogs at home or go somewhere else. I leave my dogs home because they're !$#@ing animals and have no manners. Roadside (and many other crags in the Red) do not have enough land area to sustainably handly your poop and your dogs' poop.

stix wrote:

Ascentionist wrote:don't put up with crap at the crag. Call people out...

. Ditto. Don't be lil bitches, call them out. Gotta take care of your neighborhood or everyone will just shit all over it.