Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 4:42 pm
I think in some ways, not knowing the grade of a route makes it easier to onsight it...no preconceptions...
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 4:44 pm
Chester, that's only if you let it. It's up to the person's mind if they let that happen.
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 4:49 pm
I agree with you, Chester. I've found that when I don't know the grade of the route, there's much less intimidation (if it's hard) or expectation of a really easy climb (it it's easy), both of which can mess you up in one way or another.
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 4:55 pm
Me three.
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 4:58 pm
so ray, we are being out voted on this one, 3-2...
so maybe the purest form of onsight is now no beta EXCEPT knowing the grade, to throw in that apprehension...
but do we all agree that the draws MUST be hung by the person going for the onsight? that has been a point of discussion in these parts....it seems we like to drop this stuff to the lowest common denominator, instead of rising to the challenge of the climb...I know I have called something an onsight with the draws in place, but now a days I think that was a flash...even if it was my first time on the route...
so maybe the purest form of onsight is now no beta EXCEPT knowing the grade, to throw in that apprehension...
but do we all agree that the draws MUST be hung by the person going for the onsight? that has been a point of discussion in these parts....it seems we like to drop this stuff to the lowest common denominator, instead of rising to the challenge of the climb...I know I have called something an onsight with the draws in place, but now a days I think that was a flash...even if it was my first time on the route...
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:10 pm
You gotta hang the gear if you want an onsight. 
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:12 pm
I'm relatively new to climbing but have always thought that hanging the draws was part of the climb. I didn't tick it until I was able to climb the route by hanging the draws AND leading it clean.
GWG
GWG
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:18 pm
Prehung draws definately blow the onsight...which is why it would be a flash! I'm with you there,
I guess I wouldn't consider knowing the grade to blow the onsight, but it can help. If you're about to try some super hard move on an easier route-chances are you should look around for another option. And it also helps me gear up mentally-if its hard I know I'm going to have to work on some moves. Thinking its within your abilities will often let you relax more, you've got more of an 'I can do this' attitude.
I guess I wouldn't consider knowing the grade to blow the onsight, but it can help. If you're about to try some super hard move on an easier route-chances are you should look around for another option. And it also helps me gear up mentally-if its hard I know I'm going to have to work on some moves. Thinking its within your abilities will often let you relax more, you've got more of an 'I can do this' attitude.
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:21 pm
I agree. I just started leading on trad(trying to,anyway). We were at Jackson Falls and I lead this route, placing gear until about 8 feet from the top and I was cooked and came down. Then,Toproped it. A week later someone else lead it and left the gear in and then I "lead" with gear in place; but I still haven't LEAD it yet. I know I can climb the route but I KNOW I HAVE NOT LEAD IT, YET. 8)
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:30 pm
Preplacing on trad routes isn't as accepted as doing a bolted route with prehung draws. I've never preplaced on a trad route and considered it a redpoint but many people do. Placing a stopper on onsight can be a lot more taxing than hanging a draw on onsight. On many lines the pro is so tough to place that kind of becomes part of the route's personality.