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dustonian wrote:there is no doubt that RF fundraising benefits greatly from the crowds drawn by MV.

no doubt, really? how do you know it's not the other way around?

clif wrote:

dustonian wrote:there is no doubt that RF fundraising benefits greatly from the crowds drawn by MV.

no doubt, really? how do you know it's not the other way around?

+1

Well, for one thing the suggested donation to climb at Muir last weekend was just that, a suggestion... not the case for going to RF, as all these folks were doing. You would not believe the hordes of first-time, never-climbed-outside people I shuttled back and forth from Miguel's to RF... every single one of these people had going to Muir that day. For another, the amount raised by the one-weekend only fundraiser in Muir is a drop in the bucket compared to the money pulled in by RF weekend. No doubt the benefit goes both ways (thanks to the suggested donation policy), but the rising popularity and accessibility of Muir Valley significantly increases the amount of people attending RF. Most people are coming to the Red to climb, the Rocktoberfest events are just something additional to do at night if they happen to hear about it. The visitor levels in the Red will be no smaller for the next few weekends.

i'm sure you'd still advise people to get a second opinion.

lena_chita wrote: I don't think the Red was LESS busy because of Rocktoberfest.

I guess we can agree on that.

lena_chita wrote: I also don't think that New in it's entirety is "just as crowded".

Super.

Nice try Dustonian.

Not a "try" just an honest assessment of the majority of visitors I talked to on Saturday night: they came to the Red to climb at Muir, and happened to go to RF as well... just an observation. I think it's great that both organizations benefit in some way from the obscene popularity of climbing in the Red in the fall. I also think it's great that the madness is easy to escape if you know where and where not to go.

dustonian wrote: No doubt that RF fundraising benefits greatly from the crowds drawn by MV.

then

dustonian wrote:No doubt the benefit goes both ways

Let me guess your next post.

"No doubt that MV benefits from RF"

That about covers it.

lena_chita wrote: I honestly did not think that the climbing areas, at least where I was, were any more crowded this past weekend than they would be on any average fall weekend with warm-ish temps and no rain in a forecast. I was in PMRP both Sat and Sunday. Speaking with a few friends who were climbing at other places in the gorge-- Military, Left Flank, Drive-by, Solar Collector, Darkside-- they did not feel that it was any more crowded than average fall weekend, either.

Didn't you climb at Miller? Not everyone gets an invite in to the super cool kids club and gets to climb at super secret crags on the busiest weekend of the year.

Dude parking at Miller was crowded Sat!! It was weird lookin.