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caribe wrote:The obvious answer to an 'onsight' may be "shit I am climbing pretty hard and doing fairly well" instead of "those that touched this stone before me are wrong; my opinion should carry more weight than their collective experience."
-- Doesn't Ondra wonder whether people are going to think he is on an ego trip when he downgrades left right and center? Doesn't he think that these downgrades sound like the need to ego-stroke, and self-promote via downgrading?

He is 19 still. At 19, my ego was huge. Hell, if I was 19 and a source of all the climbers' idolatry my ego would have been this huge Everest size monster. I would have never recovered from thinking so highly of myself. Thankfully, 10 years past that age, my ego has been beatdown many times. I am thankful for those beatdowns, because each time one occurs a little more of that foolish boy falls away and I grow as a man.

If in the end his ego is involved, I think the boy needs to be shown some mercy for the foolishness of his youth. If his ego is involved.

this truly is jumping the shark...Id rather stroke ray's nutsack via the icebreaker thread...but in all seriousness, who cares....arguing over bolted cracks is way better.

climb2core wrote:

caribe wrote:Are you sleeping with him Ian?

Typical response when you know you have no argument and that you are intellectually in way over your head

Down boy! But, I think I will learn something from people's opinion here. When to appropriately downgrade is a hard question to answer. BTW Ian, a letter grade here or there on PI and GT do not come close to ruffling my insecurities.

Shouldn't grades be set by consensus by people that climbed them? Not sure how us peons will help you decide "when to appropriately downgrade". But like Porkchop says, makes no difference to me.

climb2core wrote:But like Porkchop says, makes no difference to me.

As I said above, this can be merely a stage and a point of departure for a broader conversation.

Grades apparently are representative of a "region" and the opinions of those who climb in it.

Adam O. has climbed a shit ton of 9a's around the world. I'm going to assume he probably has a pretty good idea of how they feel in different parts of the world, and I bet he could point at some consensus 9a's that were easier for him than some consensus 8c+'s. Since he is climbing within one number grade of his max send I would say he is probably pretty accurate on the suggested grade if he is honest with himself. Now when he downgrades 8a on the other hand, well, that is just silly.

If you are within a letter you are within a small margin of error relative to the "consensus" of a few people anyway so not much to argue about. If he called it 14a/b, well, then he is starting to be about as much of a doofus as Kipp and Dustin, and then nobody knows what to expect anymore, except that it probably won't be any easier than the listed grade for damn sure.

In any case, I'd like to see some strong dude attempt to even climb to the top of Adam O.'s 9b+. That is obviously one insane climb if it is as much harder as his grading implies. Now hopefully out to send Jumbo Love in 2-3 goes and call it 9a+, and man I hope they film that one...

only at the high end of climbing, where sponsorships are at stake and folks make their living do these issues even matter. for the rest of us, talking smack about doing our first 12a, onsighting 12b, beating into submission a 13a,etc..is an exercise in self absorption no different than what we are smugly pretending exists at the highest echelon....

do not even for a minute lie and say you do not look at your ticklist, watch your rankings on here, whether it is by overall routes climbed or your hardest sends, try to massage an insecurity and beat your partner to the send, bolt ad nauseum routes to somehow pretend you are significant in this world, check if your brah from the gym sent the route you just did, try to spit them off some problem at the sweaty sack bouldering gym that you have wired, pull off your shirt to make sure everyone truly knows you are a skinny ass white boy,bitch about the crowds, feel superior because you can smack talk Muir, be pro or con on fixed draws, post 10k times on a forum, hate blue jeans, wish all babies and dogs at the crags would disappear, dream that trad is pure....gag me with a spoon little kiddies.

it all stems from the fact that we are self absorbed useless masses of water, fart stained and delusional about how much our existence matters at the Red or any climbing area. No one cares....seriously, no one cares. you are nothing, and the sooner you come to grips with that the less time you will waste away your life pretending climbing is some bad ass experience. its not..it just removes you from the pathetic mess you made in your 'real life'....quit running from that fact and grow up.

Couldn't get out today Pigsteak?

Pig, some of us actually do accept that we are minute, temporally (it is not just a mortal shell, but when it's over it's over) and spatially (1 out of 100s of billions of star systems). We step out of the shower Irish-Spring clean and we fart long and juicy. We were certainly made in the image of a deity. The competition and the smack talk is, for most, light-hearted, but adds a sense of purpose and encouragement to push it.

rjackson wrote:Couldn't get out today Pigsteak?

+1