Who's line is it?

[caribe]

Ian, this particular thread did not have to live; you're taking lessons from the pig.

[LK Day]

And a lesson well learned.

[der uber]

I should also of stated that I have never seen this piece of rock in person

H

[pigsteak]

sir arthur, you know my intent well. but here is the way i think about it. we only use "trad" gear because we had nothing else....with each upgrade there is new equipment in the quiver. hence why we rarely see hexes in use at the crag, and tri cams are on their way out completely. shoot, even nuts will be obsolete.

so people 'trad" climbed 30 years ago because that was the most efficient way to ascend a rock face. before that, hammering pins was fine.

trad climbing is sort of like voting republican..it is holding to the "good old days", the way things "used to be"....it allows for nostalgia in a busy hectic world. it allows for old farts to get lost in the woods and clear their minds. but in no way does placing gear hold some superior position..if anything, it is an outdated mode of thinking especially when it comes to single pitch crag climbing.

why did people climb cracks on gear in the good old days? because there was not adequate protection for the face climbs. there isnt some holy alliance between cams and a crack, just simple minded wishful thinking attempting to hold onto the past.

for smart guys, you traditionalists sound like the geezer club of ethics. "cracks are sacred".....bleech. why? seems to me that to remain consistent in that view, one would have to hold that ANY section of rock that can be protected with removable pro should not be bolted. if someone leads head and shoulders on gear, then all the bolts should be pulled.

seriously, I get soooo confused about not bolting cracks....why the hell not?

[climb2core]

How much "crack" do you actually climb while climbing EGBG?

[LK Day]

See below.

[LK Day]

sir arthur, you know my intent well. but here is the way i think about it. we only use "trad" gear because we had nothing else....with each upgrade there is new equipment in the quiver. hence why we rarely see hexes in use at the crag, and tri cams are on their way out completely. shoot, even nuts will be obsolete.

so people 'trad" climbed 30 years ago because that was the most efficient way to ascend a rock face. before that, hammering pins was fine.

trad climbing is sort of like voting republican..it is holding to the "good old days", the way things "used to be"....it allows for nostalgia in a busy hectic world. it allows for old farts to get lost in the woods and clear their minds. but in no way does placing gear hold some superior position..if anything, it is an outdated mode of thinking especially when it comes to single pitch crag climbing.

why did people climb cracks on gear in the good old days? because there was not adequate protection for the face climbs. there isnt some holy alliance between cams and a crack, just simple minded wishful thinking attempting to hold onto the past.

for smart guys, you traditionalists sound like the geezer club of ethics. "cracks are sacred".....bleech. why? seems to me that to remain consistent in that view, one would have to hold that ANY section of rock that can be protected with removable pro should not be bolted. if someone leads head and shoulders on gear, then all the bolts should be pulled.

seriously, I get soooo confused about not bolting cracks....why the hell not?

Completely, terribly, absolutely, utterly and stupidly wrong. It's about leaving things, as nearly as possible, the way you found them. Ever hear the expression "leave no trace"? I'm not about to encourage a war on bolting, but a bolt is about as far as one can get from the leave no trace ethic. It's also about a sense of adventure and building competency for climbing in the greater climbing areas of the world. You think we should bolt every fucking inch of crack on El Cap? If all you ever do in the RRG is clip bolts how the hell are you supposed to learn how to climb in the REAL world? Either you're just trying to yank our chain or the above is one of the stupidest things you've ever said.

[LK Day]

Since you're really just trying to be provocative, how about this? If all you ever do is clip bolts you are nothing but a pussy, not really a climber at all. When you bolt a sport route in the RRG you are turning a cliff into a piece of outdoor exercise equipment. You are taking the gym experience outdoors. That's all. You're not a climber and you never will be if you only do sport routes. Fucking pussies.

[Andrew]

Since you're really just trying to be provocative, how about this? If all you ever do is clip bolts you are nothing but a pussy, not really a climber at all. When you bolt a sport route in the RRG you are turning a cliff into a piece of outdoor exercise equipment. You are taking the gym experience outdoors. That's all. You're not a climber and you never will be if you only do sport routes. Fucking pussies.

Merica!!! (gun shooting noises)

[JR]

Hmmmm.. Interesting. Oddly these diametrically opposed points both make sense to me.