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krampus wrote:There are not enough low 12 trad routs in the red though. Its like you gotta jump from 11c to 12c in one step..

true enough, but there must be dozens of 12- routes in the Red that could be lead on gear---head and shoulders comes to mind, and maybe pine, bmt, dave the dude?

anyway, it's up to you because it's all i can do to climb 10's, sport or trad.

Redpoint 5.10d-11a trad
"" 5.12a sport.

Working hard to close the gap. I am all but convinced that trad is intrinsically more difficult. The learning curve seems steeper with sport. One reason might be that trad is wilder, less house-broken than sport.

We are going to have to find more gear routes in the ref. Dustin Stephens pretty much has shown us that they are out there to discover.

I think I smell your cooking Larry, but at this point it is mystery meat. What exactly is for dinner here?

5.fun sport, 5.sketch trad

Go check out Bloodline, Joely... and I've heard Cascading Wind & Vascular Massacre are really good too.

dustonian wrote:5.fun sport, 5.sketch trad

+1

A perfect descriptive...

Buut since you also seem to be collecting data for a project...

Hardest redpoint...
Sport - 12b
Trad - 11d

Able to work and usually send...
Sport - mid-high 11
trad - mid-low 10

I think of myself as...
Sport - a 5.10 climber
Trad - a 5.6R climber

Like everyone else I'd love to close the gap and I it is happening, mainly due to a failing sport ability that is allowing my mediocre trad climbing to catch up.

Hardest Redpoint...
Sport - 12d
Trad - 11d (I've climbed 11c R trad lines that were harder mentally than the 11d trad lines I've done)

I'm not trying at all to close the gap... I haven't climbed a trad line in probably 4 years and I don't see myself trying a trad line any time soon... maybe if sport climbing stops being fun to me then I'll switch back...

caribe wrote:I think I smell your cooking Larry, but at this point it is mystery meat. What exactly is for dinner here?

I like that. It's almost done.

Fuck, I have been way more sketched on old school / Matt Tackett sport routes then any trad routes I have done.

There are always outliers. While certainly not trad, an argument could be made that if you can't afford to fall it's not exactly a "sport" route either.