Brilliant Orange at the Gold Goast

Post by **climbhigh** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:00 pm

Im not talking about this route only. So dont turn this into me against Rob.I thank him for his time and dedication as well as every other route developer out there. Im talking about routes and ethics in general. Are there plenty of routes at the Red, yup, are there plenty allah probally hasnt done, yup. Is it right for someone to equip a route and let it be for years and expect people not to want to give it a go, nope. And if you put up a route and left it alone for yeas and no one wanted to get on it then you prob didnt do a good job picking the line or bolting it. SO consider it a compliment that people want to get on it. I do respect the equippers right to give it a go first, and to work for the FA, but theres a point in time when its fair game.

Post by **Artsay** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:06 pm

Yea, and that time is probably when there's not a red tag on it.

Just my opinion...

Post by **rhunt** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:09 pm

climbhigh wrote:. Are there plenty of routes at the Red, yup, are there plenty allah probally hasnt done, yup.

Not really...that dude cranks and has done a shit load of routes at the Red!

Post by **climbhigh** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:13 pm

Then what about boulder problems, trad routes, aid, big walls, alpine. I just dont see how you can say that this particular piece of land, that I do not own is mine and no one else can touch it. Please dont take me wrong. I do respect the equippers, the cleaners, or whoever gets the route ready to have their chance at it first. But you cant keep people off of it forever.

Post by **Spragwa** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:31 pm

So are you proposing a new climbers etiquette necessitated by the heavy traffic in the Red? Plenty of bolters give up a route and that they don't have time to work. Plenty don't. My guess is that since Rob said it was his project, he doesn't want to give it up. If someone has a problem with that, maybe they should talk to Rob about it. He put the effort into it, he saw the line, in my opinion, he should get the first assent whenever he's ready to do it, not when everyone else is ready for him to. But that's my opinion.

Post by **climbhigh** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:49 pm

Again, do not turn this into me against Rob. Much respect is given to him and all others that take their time to give us routes to climb. And yes in this instance, and most other instances they should talk to Rob or the developer directly and see whats up. So what if the developer moves, or slacks off in his climbing and cant get up the route anymore. Do we just let it sit there untill the fucking bolts rust out ? I just dotn think you can get mad when someone does a route that has been sitting for years at a popular crag while you have been working on other lines, or doing other things. If the FA on that line is that important to you, then focus on it till its done. Then move on.

Post by **tsparks** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:53 pm

Well, I'm all for letting the person that bolted a route get the FA, if they do it in a reasonable timeframe, but if they take more than a year or two and someone else wants to give it a try it would be nice if they could. Maybe it's just a matter of asking the equipper for permission to get on it, but it seems like there should be something that can be done.

Here is a question for everyone. Who decides who can put up routes? I'm talking about on land where the "public" is allowed to freely bolt routes, not in any restricted areas. What would stop some idiot from buying a bunch of equipment and just bolting a whole wall and keeping anyone else from getting on it?

Post by **canadaclimbergirl** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:03 pm

Climb High....I doubt you'll still be climbing by the time the bolts rust out...assuming they are stainless steel....

At our crag up here in New Brunswick, out ethics lead us to give people about 2 years, but the climbing community here is fairly small so it is easy to keep tabs on people and projects.

Bottom line, if someone here wants to get on a Project, they must contact the person who has put up the line to get permission. It usually isn't a problem as long as the potentional FA/FFA is contacted.

Use your head, be respectful, and 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Post by JR » Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:06 pm

climbhigh wrote: theres a point in time when its fair game.

Quit beating around the bush climbhigh. How long EXACTLY do you think a route should remain off limits? Or do you just have some FEELINGS about the timing. For example, "Hi, I am Allah and I feel like this Rob dude has had his crack at this Gold Coast route. I feel like it is my turn." Sounds pretty fucking stupid to me.

What is even more bizzare is that Allah needs to announce this poaching. Can't you keep it to your self stud? Will your ego let you?

Post by **rhunt** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:26 pm

JR wrote: What is even more bizzare is that Allah needs to announce this poaching. Can't you keep it to your self stud? Will your ego let you?

Did you read Allah first post? He's asking if he can redpoint the route. He backed off of it out of respect for the guy(Rob) who bolted it. Allah is using this web page, as it should be, to get info about who's line it is and if he can get on it?

Stop freaking out about this issue and let Allah and Rob work it out